From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Sat Dec 2 03:24:11 2000 Received: from kweetal.tue.nl (kweetal.tue.nl [131.155.2.7]) by svfile1.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB22OAr17032 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 03:24:10 +0100 (MET) Received: from svin12.win.tue.nl (svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135]) by kweetal.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB224Ix29956; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 03:04:19 +0100 (MET) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eB224D417733 for discovery-list; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 03:04:13 +0100 (MET) X-Authentication-Warning: svin12.win.tue.nl: majordom set sender to owner-discovery@win.tue.nl using -f Received: from mailhost.tue.nl (mailhost.tue.nl [131.155.2.5]) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB2248K17729 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 03:04:08 +0100 (MET) Received: from fep03-svc.mail.telepac.pt (fep03-svc.mail.telepac.pt [194.65.5.202]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB2247n22663 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 03:04:07 +0100 (MET) Received: from [212.55.189.167] by fep03-svc.mail.telepac.pt (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20001202020924.OCQZ3590.fep03-svc.mail.telepac.pt@[212.55.189.167]> for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 02:09:24 +0000 X-Sender: np01hd@mail.telepac.pt Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3A261FEA.DCE1AF3E@easynet.co.uk> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20001122134425.00adaa20@rellis@pop3.idt.net> from Richard Ellis at "Nov 22, 2000 1:45:19 pm" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 02:04:20 +0000 To: discovery@win.tue.nl From: "Alfredo P. Marques - CEMAR" Subject: [EXP] More on Yeso and Japan Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by svin12.win.tue.nl id eB2249K17730 Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: RO Dears Ray Howgego, Richard Ellis, Andre Engels, Henny Savenije, Bill Warren, etc.: What an interesting and informative discussion this has been, with so valuable contributions from all the people! Please let me put forward an idea. I wonder if it would not be interesting if we could have in paralel to this list something like the Internet page which Peter Van der Krogt with great merit maintains for the MapHist list: a page devoted to show images (maps, etc.) sent by the members of the list illustrating the themes being discussed. If such a page existed also for this very interesting Discovery list, it would be easy for me now to send to it the scanned images of these Portuguese maps of c.1560, 1561, 1569, 1613, c.1628, 1630, c.1640, 1641, 1641, and probably our friend Prof. Ray Howgego would also be able to send to it the images of the map of Girolamo de Angelis, 1625, the printed maps by Johannes Blaeu and Jean-Baptiste du Halde, etc.. This was just an idea (and another hypothesis would be for us to ask Peter Van der Krogt if it is possible to send images in attachments to him so that he includes them available in the MapHist Images Page). Now, allow me some answers. Responding to Ray Howgego: >Angeli was one of those who survived the Jesuit purge >of 1614. He spent the following nine years travelling through northern >Japan and visited Yeso in 1618 and 1621. According to his letters, >other wandering Jesuits were encountered at Matsumae (on the southern >tip of Hokkaido) in 1613, 1618 and 1620. Girolamo was executed by fire >in 1623. And certainly these escaping Jesuits gave informations about the North in which they were hiding from the persecutions. But I think that probably that was not the only source of information. See below what I say about the voyage of the Spanish navigator Sebastian Vizcaino in 1611-1613. >However, the shape of Hokkaido depicted by Girolamo and (possibly) >earlier Portuguese navigators, seems to have been lost to European >cartographers by the middle of the seventeenth century. From then on, >until the early years of the nineteenth century, virtually every map of >the north of Japan made use of the outline of eastern Hokkaido drawn by >Maarten Vries. The rest of Hokkaido was generally left as a blank. >The discoveries of Vries were first admitted onto a printed map as part >the world map of Johannes Blaeu, dating from 1645-46. Illustrating images would be very interesting here! We need that site for publishing images being discussed... Responding to Richard Ellis (in a message sent directly to me): > I have learned that the passage between the southern Kurile islands of > Itrup and Urup was once known as "Vries" (or "Uries," which would appear to > be a mis-spelling) Strait. Modern maps show it as "Prolip Friza," which > looks to me like a Russian transliteration of the earlier name(s). Does the > name "Vries" appear on any of the maps you've consulted? No. As far as I have noticed not a single one of the 17th century Portuguese maps shows any information derived from the 1643 Dutch voyage by De Vries. But they show echoes of another voyage, which until now has not been mentioned here in this discussion we are having..! In a chart of the Pacific Ocean included in a manuscript Atlas of the world with 8 charts, dated 1642 and signed by Joao Teixeira Albernaz I (nr. 87, in pages 228-229 of my book on the cartography of Japan), we see a group of small islands located to the north of the big island of Yezo, and in that group of small islands it is written 'Ilhas que achou DÕ JOÃO DA GAMA' (which means 'Islands found by Dom Joao da Gama'). So... it seems that some Portuguese navigator called Dom Joao da Gama (on whom I don't know nothing... or have ever heard about...), certainly one of the numerous descendents of the famous Vasco da Gama (discoverer of the sea route to India in 1497-1499, Admiral in 1499 and Vice-Roy of India in 1524) navigated in these regions prior to 1642... Would that be a good reason for the Dutch to go there in 1643? I don't know much more on this. I can only add that similar inscriptions continue to be written (with some more details) in another manuscript chart by Joao Teixeira Albernaz I. In fact, in the manuscript chart of 1649 (nr. 89, in pages 232-233 of my book) it is written 'Ilhas q vio Dõ João da gama indo da China pera Nova Espanha' (which means 'Islands seen by Dom Joao da Gama when he went from China to New Spain'). The same happens in an engraved chart published in 1664 by the French Melchissedec Thevenot but absolutely based in the 1649 manuscript chart drawn by the Portuguese cartographer (nr. 90, in pages 234-235 of my book). So... it seems that we have to consider, in relation to the North of Japan, some other navigation, by some not-well-known Portuguese navigator called Dom Joao da GamaŠ It was certainly prior to 1642. Was it only some yers before 1642, or was it many years before 1642...? Was it prior to 1613...? I really don't know, but I guess it was probably after that, due to the reasons below. Responding to Andre Engels: > I don't think there will have been a Portuguese exploring voyage to the > region, the most likely source seems to be Japanese maps or other Japanese > information. Another possibility is that the knowledge about the island > came from Jesuit missionaries, who had visited much of Japan. If I remember > correctly, after Christianity had been forbidden in Japan, a number of > missionaries and Japanese Christians fled to northern Honshu. They may well > have heared about Yeso (Hokkaido) from the local population there. Yes. I am also convinced that by these years c. 1613 probably there has not been any Portuguese voyage to these northern parts of Japan. By that time great difficulties were indeed being put to the official Portuguese presence in Japan (due to the Tokugawa persecutions against the Jesuits and the Japanese Christians, the internal difficulties of the Portuguese in the first decades of the 17th century, the arrival of more Dutch rivals, etc.). An example of these difficulties is the famous episode of the destruction of the Portuguese ship 'Madre de Deus', blown to pieces in 1610 in the harbour of Nagasaki by an explosion ordered by its own captain, the Portuguese Andre Pessoa, who decided not to surrender to the Japanese (Charles Ralph Boxer wrote about that). As you, Prof. Ray Howgego, and Prof. Henny Savenije, are now saying very well, a good explanation for the new information, c.1613, given to the Portuguese-Malay cartographer Manuel Godinho de Heredia, which allowed him to make his good representations of the autonomous island of Yeso, is the presence in the North (northern Honshu, and Hokkaido) of that Girolamo de Angelis and other Jesuit priests escaped from the persecutions. But it seems that another source of information on the northern island of Japan was by that time made available to the people and the cartographers interested in (and well informed on) eastern matters (as was the Portuguese-Malay Manuel Godinho de Heredia, and as certainly would be some time later the Dutch navigators like De Vries). It seems that in 1611-1613 a Spanish navigator called Sebastian Vizcaino (a subject to the King of both Spain and Portugal, at that time united under the Habsburg dinasty) went to Japan, and in his return (and probably also in the going, since he certainly went by the North, coming from Manila and the Philipines), noticed and surveyed the northern part of the archipelago, Hokkaido, etc.... So... probably that Spanish navigator Vizcaino, a subject to the King of Spain and Portugal, was the main informer on these regions... and his information, since c.1613, found his way to the Jesuits and to the Portuguese cartographers such as Manuel Godinho de Heredia, João Teixeira Albernaz I, Antonio Sanches, etc.. (it seems that the 1611-1613 voyage by that Spaniard Vizcaino coming from Philippines was also one of the reasons for the situation to deteriorate in Japan, in a terrible mess... with both Portuguese and Spanish having suspitions on each other... Jesuits and Fransciscans doing the same... Dutch protestants waiting their turn to intervene with more strenght... and most of all the Japanese having suspitions on everybody... and the Shogun deciding to persecute the Christians and control the foreigners more and more...). This 1611-1613 voyage by Sebastian Vizcaino is referred to by the Japanese author Ryoichi Aihara. Please see his article in the bibliographical list which I give below. The bibliography which I know on the Portuguese cartography of Japan (or the Portuguese-style cartography made by the Japanese in the 16th and 17th centuries) is listed in my Bibliography of the Discoveries (a version of it, dated c.1992, is available in the Internet at http://www.uc.pt/bd.apm) most of all in its section E.IV.B.3.3. 'Portuguese Cartography of the Indian Ocean and the Far East' and in its section E.IV.B.6.'The Influence of Portuguese Cartography Abroad'. Here is a list of some of these references: AIHARA, Ryoichi, "Portulan Charts of Portuguese Origin Produced in Japan in the Early Seventeenth Century", in Vice-Almirante A. Teixeira da Mota: In Memoriam, vol. I, Lisboa: AM - IICT, 1988, 11-28. CORTESÃO, Armando, "Apêndice VI. Estudo da Evolução da Antiga Representação Cartográfica de Algumas Regiões do Mundo: Terra Nova e Japão", in CORTESÃO, A.; MOTA, A. Teixeira da, Portugaliae Monumenta Cartographica, vol. V, Lisboa, 1960, 157-178 (facsim. reed. Lisboa: INCM, 1988). DAHLGREN, E.W., "Les Débuts de la Cartographie du Japon", Archives d'Études Orientales, Uppsala, 1911, vol. 4. KAWAMURA, Hirotada, "Kuni-Ezu (Provincial Maps) Compiled by Tokugawa Shogunate in Japan", Imago Mundi, London, 1989, vol. 41, 70-75. MARQUES, Alfredo Pinheiro, "Le Japon dans les Cartes", Le Courrier de l´UNESCO. Camoëns et les Découvertes Portugaises, Paris: UNESCO, 1989, Avril, 14-16. MARQUES, Alfredo Pinheiro, "A Cartografia Portuguesa e o Japão. Visão Geral e Apresentação de uma Nova Carta", in CARNEIRO, Roberto; MATOS, A.Teodoro de (ed.), O Século Cristão do Japão. Actas do Colóquio Internacional Comemorativo dos 450 Anos da Amizade Portugal-Japão (Lisboa, 1993), Lisboa: Universidade Nova de Lisboa - Universidade Católica Portuguesa, 1994, 315-346. MARQUES, Alfredo Pinheiro, A Cartografia Portuguesa do Japão (Séculos XVI-XVII). Catálogo das Cartas Portuguesas - Portuguese Cartography of Japan (16th-17th Centuries). A Catalogue of Portuguese Charts, Lisboa: INCM-FO-CNCDP, 1996. MARQUES, Alfredo Pinheiro; NEBENZAHL, Kenneth, "Moreira's Manuscript. A Newly Discovered Portuguese Map of the World - Made in Japan", Mercator's World, Eugene OR (U.S.A.), 1997, vol. 2 (4), 18-23. MUROGA, N.; UNNO, Kazutaka, "The Buddhist World Map in Japan and its Contact with European Maps", Imago Mundi, London, 1962, vol. 16, 49-69. NAKAMURA, Hiroshi, Goshuinsen Kokaizu. A History of the Japanese Portulan Charts, Tokyo, 1965. NAKAMURA, Hiroshi, "The Japanese Portolanos of Portuguese Origin of the XVI and XVII Centuries", Imago Mundi, London, 1964, vol. 18, 24-44. SCHÜTTE S.J., Josef Franz, "Ignacio Moreira of Lisbon, Cartographer in Japan, 1590-1592", Imago Mundi, London, 1962, vol. 16. TELEKI, Paul Graf, Atlas zur Geschichte der Kartographie der Japanischen Inseln, Budapest, 1909. UNNO, Kazutaka, "Jingúbunko Shozó no Namban-kei Sekaizu to Nanyó Karuta (A ´Namban´ Map of the World and a Japanese Portolano of Southeast and East Asia in the Jingúbunko Library Collection)", in ARISAKA, T. (ed.), Nihon Yógakushi no Kenkyú (Studies on the History of the Western Learning in Japan), vol. 9, Apr., Tokyo, 1989, 9-36. UNNO, Kazutaka, "Shoho Kan ´Bankoku Sozu´ no Seiritsu to Rufu (The ´Bankoku´Sozu, Map of All the Countries, Published in 1645 and the Popularization)", in ARIZAKA, T. (ed.), Nihon Yogakushi no Kenkyu (Studies on the History of the Western Learning in Japan), vol. 10, Jan., Tokyo, 1991. UNNO, Kazutaka, "The European Elements in the Japanese Survey Methods During the Edo Era: With Special Reference to the Technical Terms and the Instruments", in XVII International Congress of History of Science. Abstracts, Berkeley: University of California, 1985. UNNO, Kazutaka, "European Cartography of Korea in the Sixteenth and Seventeenth Centuries", Journal of the Korean History of Science Society, 1987, vol. 9, (1) Dec. (sep.). UNNO, Kazutaka, "A Bibliographical Review of the History of Asian Cartography: From the End of the Second World War", Journal of History of Science, Japan, 1991, ser. II, vol. 30, (177). WASHBURN, Wilcomb E., "Japan on Early European Maps", Pacific Historical Review, Berkeley-Los Angeles: University of California Press, 1952, vol. XXI (3), 221-236. I hope this can be useful. Once again, thanks to everybody for the informations given, and congratulations to Andre Engels on the existence of this list of discussion. With best wishes. Alfredo Pinheiro Marques ** ** * Centro de Estudos do Mar ******** *** PORTUGAL ** ******** ***** ** ************* * * * * ** ************ ************* **** ****************** * *** ** * ** ** ****************************** ** ** * **** ************************************************************** alfmarq.cemar@mail.telepac.pt CEMAR-Centro de Estudos do Mar Phone: (351) 233434450 Urb. Monfoz, Lote 15 Fax: (351) 233434450 Buarcos PORTUGAL 3080-238 FIGUEIRA DA FOZ ************************************************************** alfmarq@ci.uc.pt Alfredo Pinheiro Marques Phone: (351) 2394109900 Faculdade de Letras Fax: (351) 239836733 Universidade de Coimbra Phone Home: (351) 233433258 3004-530 COIMBRA - PORTUGAL Visit the Bibliography of the Discoveries at http://www.uc.pt/bd.apm http://alf.ci.uc.pt/fluc/docent/currdoc/alfmarq.htm ************************************************* DESIR ****** From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Sat Dec 2 03:41:17 2000 Received: from mailhost.tue.nl (mailhost.tue.nl [131.155.2.5]) by svfile1.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB22fGr17604 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 03:41:16 +0100 (MET) Received: from svin12.win.tue.nl (svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB223Yn22643; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 03:03:35 +0100 (MET) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eB2229U17722 for discovery-list; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 03:02:09 +0100 (MET) X-Authentication-Warning: svin12.win.tue.nl: majordom set sender to owner-discovery@win.tue.nl using -f Received: from kweetal.tue.nl (kweetal.tue.nl [131.155.2.7]) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB2222K17718 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 03:02:02 +0100 (MET) Received: from fep03-svc.mail.telepac.pt (fep03-svc.mail.telepac.pt [194.65.5.202]) by kweetal.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB2220x29913 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 03:02:01 +0100 (MET) Received: from [212.55.189.167] by fep03-svc.mail.telepac.pt (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20001202020718.OCKU3590.fep03-svc.mail.telepac.pt@[212.55.189.167]> for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 02:07:18 +0000 X-Sender: np01hd@mail.telepac.pt Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 02:02:06 +0000 To: discovery@win.tue.nl From: "Alfredo P. Marques - CEMAR" Subject: Re: [EXP] japanese island of Yeso (Hokkaido) Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: RO In my previous message, listing Portuguese portolan-charts which already include the depiction of the island Yeso (Hokkaido) in North Japan prior to 1643, I wrote too much hastily, and I didn't mentioned all the specimens which we know. I forgot some other cartographic representations, due to the Portuguese cartographer Bartolomeu Velho, with that pioneering pattern of the "Bartolomeu Velho's pattern of Japan" which was to be so strangely ignored (and substituted, for many years, by the more archaic "Fernao Vaz Dourado's pattern of Japan"...). In fact, besides the 1561 pattern which was referred to by me and by Prof. Ray Howgego -- and in fact there are two Bartolomeu Velho's charts with that pattern, during that year (one of the Far East, presented in my book with the nr. 33, in pp. 120-121, and another one of the Pacific Ocean, presented in my book with the nr. 34, in pp. 122-123, both pertaining to the set of four charts of the world, nowadays kept in the Istituto e Museo di Storia della Scienza in Florence, Italy) -- we also have two other specimens produced by Velho. They are the following: - a map of the world in gores with polar projection, c.1560, nowadays in the Bibliotheque Nationale de France in Paris (nr. 27, in pp. 108-109 of my book); - a terrestrial globe drawn in two hesmispheres, in the "Cosmographia" with 27 sheets with cosmographic elements, of 1569, nowadays also in the Bibliotheque Nationale de France in Paris (nr. 41, in pp. 136-137 of my book). Both are very small scale representations, but it can be seen that they display the typical "Bartolomeu Velho's pattern of Japan" and they already include the autonomous big island in the North (they only display it, but they don't name it, nor even name Japan itself). There is also another map showing Hokkaido, by the Portuguese Jesuit Antonio Francisco Cardim, engraved in Rome in 1646 (nr. 88, in pp. 230-231 of my book). This one follows the "Luis Teixeira's pattern of Japan", but already showing and naming the southern tip of Yezo. Thanks to everybody for the informations given, and congratulations to Andre Engels on the existence of this list of discussion. With best wishes. Alfredo Pinheiro Marques ** ** * Centro de Estudos do Mar ******** *** PORTUGAL ** ******** ***** ** ************* * * * * ** ************ ************* **** ****************** * *** ** * ** ** ****************************** ** ** * **** ************************************************************** alfmarq.cemar@mail.telepac.pt CEMAR-Centro de Estudos do Mar Phone: (351) 233434450 Urb. Monfoz, Lote 15 Fax: (351) 233434450 Buarcos PORTUGAL 3080-238 FIGUEIRA DA FOZ ************************************************************** alfmarq@ci.uc.pt Alfredo Pinheiro Marques Phone: (351) 2394109900 Faculdade de Letras Fax: (351) 239836733 Universidade de Coimbra Phone Home: (351) 233433258 3004-530 COIMBRA - PORTUGAL Visit the Bibliography of the Discoveries at http://www.uc.pt/bd.apm http://alf.ci.uc.pt/fluc/docent/currdoc/alfmarq.htm ************************************************* DESIR ****** From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Sat Dec 2 09:50:19 2000 Received: from mailhost.tue.nl (mailhost.tue.nl [131.155.2.5]) by svfile1.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB28oJr04013 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 09:50:19 +0100 (MET) Received: from svin12.win.tue.nl (svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB28aFn29594; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 09:36:15 +0100 (MET) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eB28ZlJ19007 for discovery-list; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 09:35:47 +0100 (MET) X-Authentication-Warning: svin12.win.tue.nl: majordom set sender to owner-discovery@win.tue.nl using -f Received: from mailhost.tue.nl (mailhost.tue.nl [131.155.2.5]) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB28ZeK19003 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 09:35:41 +0100 (MET) Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net [195.40.1.44]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB28Zdn29577 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 09:35:40 +0100 (MET) Received: from hatfield.mail.uk.easynet.net (hatfield.mail.uk.easynet.net [195.40.1.39]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B6414F8357 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 08:35:38 +0000 (GMT) Received: (qmail 14287 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2000 08:35:36 -0000 Received: from howgego.easynet.co.uk (HELO easynet.co.uk) (193.131.251.131) by hatfield.mail.uk.easynet.net with SMTP; 2 Dec 2000 08:35:36 -0000 Message-ID: <3A28B333.156172C1@easynet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 08:30:43 +0000 From: Ray Howgego X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: discovery@win.tue.nl Subject: Re: [EXP] More on Yeso and Japan References: <4.3.2.7.2.20001122134425.00adaa20@rellis@pop3.idt.net> from Richard Ellis at "Nov 22, 2000 1:45:19 pm" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: RO Thank you to everybody who has contributed to the discussion on the charting of Hokkaido and Sakhalin. It is a most interesting region. As a glance ay a world map of Aaron Arrowsmith will reveal, it was almost the only section of temperate coastline not charted by 1800 (the only other being the southern coast of Australia). In response to the last posting by Prof. Marques, here is something on João da Gama and others involved in the search for the mythical islands of the North Pacific. All of the following is extracted from my database of expeditions (publication pending). Apologies for the length of this posting, but some might find at least some of it of interest. JOÃO DA GAMA: 16th-century Portuguese sea-captain. In 1589, while serving as Captain of Malacca, he was discovered to be involved in an illicit trade with the Spanish in the Philippines. This black market, involving the exchange of oriental silks for American gold, was quite commonplace, although strictly illegal. To avoid being sent back to Portugal in chains, da Gama decided to sail directly to Acapulco. The significance of this voyage lies in the fact that while crossing the North Pacific, da Gama claimed to have sighted land to the north of Japan. This land was at the time identified with the fabulous lands of Rica de Oro and Rica de Plata (searched for by PEDRO DE UNAMUNO in 1587), and even (later) with Company Land, although more likely it was the Kuril Is., or simply a cloud bank. His erroneous longitudes, based on dead-reckoning, caused difficulties for subsequent expeditions sent out to find the islands. On his arrival at Acapulco in 1590, the unfortunate da Gama was arrested and sent to Seville to stand trial. The mysterious "Gamaland" made its first appearance on a map in 1642, and was sought by VITUS BERING (q.v.) in 1741, although he never believed in its existence. Chassigneux, E.: Rica de Oro et Rica del Plate (in Toung Pao, XXX, 1930). Here now is something about the second voyage of Sebastián Vizcaino. Most commentators deal mainly with his first voyage, which resulted in discoveries along the coast of California, while few seem to know much about his second voyage. SEBASTIÁN VIZCAINO (II): During the first decade of the seventeenth century the Japanese began to think of establishing direct trading links with Mexico and Europe, rather then sending their trade through Manila. In 1610 the Franciscan ALONSO MUNOZ was sent to Mexico and Spain as a representative of the emperor of Japan. As a result, in 1611, in preparation for the new trade route, Sebastian Vizcaino was commissioned to sail from Acapulco to Japan to seek permission for a survey of the coasts of the north Pacific, and to open diplomatic links with Japan. He was also to search for the fabulous islands of Rica de Oro and Rica de Plata (see PEDRO DE UNAMUNO). Departing from Mexico on 22.3.11, he reached Japan on 10.6.11 where he was received cordially by Ieyasu and given formal permission to survey the east coast of Japan. During the survey he lost his ships in a storm, but a replacement was provided by Date Masamune (1566/67-1636/46), the lord of Sendai in northeastern Japan. Taking with him an embassy headed by Masamune's retainer, HASEKURA ROKUEMON (1571-1622), and accompanied by the Franciscan LUIS SOTELO (1574-1624), Vizcaino finally left Japan on 21.10.13. The delegation, which comprised 150 Japanese merchants and emissaries, carrying gifts from Ieyasu, entered Mexico City in January 1614. While most of the embassy remained in Mexico, twenty members continued to Spain and arrived in Seville in October 1614. The embassy continued to Madrid, where a reception was hosted by Philip III on 20.12.14, then toured Italy during 1615-16. Hasekura himself was baptized shortly after reaching Europe, while requests were made for shipbuilders and pilots to be sent to Japan. An agreement of reciprocity between Spanish and Japanese shipping was arranged, while Sotelo, after propagandizing a new Japanese mission throughout Europe, was appointed archbishop of Japan by Pope Paul V. Sotelo and Hasekura returned to the Philippines in 1618. Hasekura reached Japan in 1620 but Sotelo remained in the Philippines for six years, accused of attempting to violate the Manila trade. He finally reached Japan in 1624, where he was martyred. Vizcaino is last heard of in an action against pirates off Acapulco in 1616. You will notice that PEDRO DE UNAMUNO is mentioned twice in the above, so here is something about him and the mysterious islands of the North Pacific: PEDRO DE UNAMUNO: Spanish navigator in the Pacific who was the first, in 1587, to search for the fabulous islands of Rica de Oro and Rica del Plata. Unamuno was the commander of the 1587 Manila galleon "Nuestra Senora de Esperanza" and, in addition to searching for the fabulous islands, was instructed, during his return voyage from the Philippines, to search for a suitable harbour on the coast of California. He failed to find the islands, but in the summer of 1587 sailed into Morro Bay and claimed the region for the King of Spain. His visit was cut short due to Indian hostility. The origin of the mythical islands, which continued to appear on the maps for many years, lies with FRANCISCO GALI who, while in Macao in 1584, was told of a Portuguese vessel bound for Japan which had been driven by a storm to an island far to the east, inhabited by a wealthy white race. It appears that this island was originally known as either Rica de Oro or Rica de Plata, but with the passing of time the two names became associated with two separate islands. They were thus named, according to GIOVANNI GEMELLI CARERI (q.v.), because some earth taken from them, accidentally heated on a ship, was found to contain grains of precious metal. There is an interesting mention of these islands on La Frechette's "Chart of the Indian Ocean" (published by W. Faden, London, 1803). They are placed thereon in 32deg and 34degN, and in 160deg and 164degE respectively, with the following legend: "Kin-sima, la Rica de Oro, or Gold Island. Gin-sima, la Rica de Plata, or Silver Island. These Two Islands, which are Known to the Japanese, are laid down according to the report of the former Spanich Navigators; they did imagine till the middle of the last century, that Gin-sima and Kin-sima were the Land of Ophir, since it could not be found in the Isles of Solomon". The islands were sought in vain by SEBASTIAN VIZCAINO (1611), JOAO DA GAMA (1590), MATTHIJS QUAST and MAARTEN VRIES. The historian of the Philippines, ANTONIO DE MORGA, writing about the route of the Manila galleons in the early seventeenth century, comments as follows: "At the northern head of Japan, six hundred leagues from the Philippines in thirty four degrees of latitude, stands Cape Sestos (= Shichi-to, 120 miles south of Tokyo Bay). The galleon then sails through other islands, which in fact are seldom sighted, in thirt eight degrees, meeting dangers and storms, in a cold climate, and in the vicinity of the two islands called Rica de Oro and Rica de Plata, which again are seldom sighted. Once past them there lies a mighty sea of open water where the galleon may run free in any weather". In the early years of the seventeenth century the Japanese heard about the islands and at one time tried to persuade WILLIAM ADAMS to conduct an exploratory voyage to locate them. In 1606 the Spanish authorities entertained the notion of setting up a way-station on the islands for the re-provisioning of the galleons before their crossing of the Pacific. In 1741, a request by the governor of the Philippines to search for the islands was rejected by Philip V on the grounds that "nothing justified the search". In 1787 JEAN-FRANCOIS DE LA PEROUSE carried out a search for land in 165degE, 37deg30minN which his journal states was "where some geographers have situated a great island, rich and with a large population, discovered they say in 1620 by the Spanish". He quoted as his source the collection of voyages published by Jean Berryat between 1755 and 1759. La Pérouse never expected to find anything, although his editor, Milet-Mureau, added a lengthy marginal note expresssing regret at the explorer's lack of faith. In a letter of 21 September 1787, sent from Kamchatka, Pérouse states "I propose to sail from the Bay of Awatska … whence I shall make for the 37th parallel to seek the land claimed to have been discovered by the Spanish in 1610 [sic]. I do not believe in the existence of this land which is very close to the ordinary track of the galleons, and all the information I have obtained leads me to think that the Spanish knew nothing about it". The name of Roca de Plata persisted even into the twentieth century, surviving a mysterious appearance Bartholomew's "Advanced Atlas of Physical and Political Geography" of 1917, and in the "Times Survey Atlas" of 1922 ! Chassigneux, E.: Rica de Oro et Rica del Plate (in Toung Pao, XXX, 1933). Blair, Emma Helen & Robertson, James Alexander (eds.): The Philippine Islands, 1493-1898. vol. XV (Cleveland 1903-09, 55 vols [for Spanish proposals for a way-station: XIV, 182-8, 270-7]). Murdoch, J.: History of Japan (Kobe & London 1903-26, 3 vols. [for the Japanese interest in the islands, vol. II, p. 616]). Torres y Lanzas, P. & Navas, F.: Catalogo de los documentos relativos a las islas Filipinas (Barcelona 1925-34, 8 vols. [for Spanish documents on the islands: V, 146, 161, 171, 206, 207; VI, 10, 12, 31-2, 44, 48, 64, 134, 145]). And finally ! FRANCISCO GALI: (= Francisco de Gualle) Spanish navigator. In March 1582 he sailed from Acapulco in Mexico, bound for the Philippines. From the Philippines he continued to Macao, noticing Formosa (= Taiwan) en route. During the return voyage in 1583, while commanding one of the ships returning from Macao by way of Japan, he ventured much further to the northeast than was normal, and reached the Californian coast, possibly at C. Mendocino, from where he sailed south along the coast to Mexico. It is likely that his was not the first of the Manila galleons to do so, and others may have gone ashore for water or other supplies. Gali's report stirred interest in the Californian coast and he was asked to advise on the establishment of a permanent settlement as a way station for the Manila galleons. However, a new viceroy proved indifferent to the idea, and the scheme was dropped. In 1587 one of the Manila route ships, captained by PEDRO DE UNAMUNO, sailed along the coast from 32degN to 39degN and anchored in Morro Bay (18.10.1587) From there some of the crew penetrated inland as far as the site of San Luis Obispo. Gali's report, prepared in 1585, was published in the 1598 edition of Linschoten's "Itinerario" and in its contemporary English translation by Wolfe. The first separate printing of Gali's voyage appeared as a volume published at Amsterdam in 1638. Gali, Francisco: Viaje y decubrimientos y observaciones desde Acapulco a Filipinas, desde Filipinas a Macao, y desde Macao a Acapulco (Amsterdam 1638). Gualle, Francisco de: Voyage to Polynesia (in John Callander: Terra Australis Cognita: or, voyages to the Terra Australis… (London 1766-68)). Best wishes Ray Howgego From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Sat Dec 2 14:02:47 2000 Received: from kweetal.tue.nl (kweetal.tue.nl [131.155.2.7]) by svfile1.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB2D2kr15634 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 14:02:46 +0100 (MET) Received: from svin12.win.tue.nl (svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135]) by kweetal.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB2Co7x14698; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 13:50:07 +0100 (MET) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eB2CnV619888 for discovery-list; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 13:49:31 +0100 (MET) X-Authentication-Warning: svin12.win.tue.nl: majordom set sender to owner-discovery@win.tue.nl using -f Received: from kweetal.tue.nl (kweetal.tue.nl [131.155.2.7]) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB2CnOK19884 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 13:49:24 +0100 (MET) Received: from sunny1.pacific.net.ph (sunny1.pacific.net.ph [210.23.234.92]) by kweetal.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB2CnKx14679 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 13:49:21 +0100 (MET) Received: from pop2.pacific.net.ph (pop2.pacific.net.ph [210.23.234.90]) by sunny1.pacific.net.ph (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA02586 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 20:49:16 +0800 (PHT) Received: from default (ppp207.dyn241.pacific.net.ph [210.23.241.207]) by pop2.pacific.net.ph with SMTP id UAA16537 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 20:49:16 +0800 (PHT) Message-ID: <000d01c05c5d$daf9ece0$cff117d2@default> From: "vicente c. de jesus" To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20001122134425.00adaa20@rellis@pop3.idt.net> from Richard Ellis at "Nov 22, 2000 1:45:19 pm" Subject: Re: [EXP] More on Yeso and Japan Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 20:45:12 +0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: RO If I may be permitted to identify my sentiments with Dr. Marques's, I did find this exchange one of the most edifying. Vicente C. de Jesus From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Sat Dec 2 17:23:38 2000 Received: from kweetal.tue.nl (kweetal.tue.nl [131.155.2.7]) by svfile1.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB2GNbr24592 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 17:23:37 +0100 (MET) Received: from svin12.win.tue.nl (svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135]) by kweetal.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB2GFBx20957; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 17:15:11 +0100 (MET) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eB2GEZ720549 for discovery-list; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 17:14:35 +0100 (MET) X-Authentication-Warning: svin12.win.tue.nl: majordom set sender to owner-discovery@win.tue.nl using -f Received: from mailhost.tue.nl (mailhost.tue.nl [131.155.2.5]) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB2GESK20545 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 17:14:29 +0100 (MET) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB2GERn12340 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 17:14:28 +0100 (MET) Received: from jonathan (nyc-ny65-11.ix.netcom.com [209.109.224.203]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA11757 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 11:14:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001202111156.00a3f100@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: jono@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 11:14:35 -0500 To: discovery@win.tue.nl From: Jonathan Rubinstein Subject: Re: [EXP] More on Yeso and Japan In-Reply-To: <3A28B333.156172C1@easynet.co.uk> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20001122134425.00adaa20@rellis@pop3.idt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by svin12.win.tue.nl id eB2GETK20546 Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: RO At 08:30 AM 12/2/00 +0000, you wrote: >Thank you to everybody who has contributed to the discussion on the >charting of Hokkaido and Sakhalin. It is a most interesting region. As >a glance ay a world map of Aaron Arrowsmith will reveal, it was almost >the only section of temperate coastline not charted by 1800 (the only >other being the southern coast of Australia). > >In response to the last posting by Prof. Marques, here is something on >João da Gama and others involved in the search for the mythical islands >of the North Pacific. All of the following is extracted from my >database of expeditions (publication pending). Apologies for the length >of this posting, but some might find at least some of it of interest. > >JOÃO DA GAMA: >16th-century Portuguese sea-captain. In 1589, while serving as Captain >of Malacca, he was discovered to be involved in an illicit trade with >the Spanish in the Philippines. This black market, involving the >exchange of oriental silks for American gold, was quite commonplace, >although strictly illegal. To avoid being sent back to Portugal in >chains, da Gama decided to sail directly to Acapulco. The significance >of this voyage lies in the fact that while crossing the North Pacific, >da Gama claimed to have sighted land to the north of Japan. This land >was at the time identified with the fabulous lands of Rica de Oro and >Rica de Plata (searched for by PEDRO DE UNAMUNO in 1587), and even >(later) with Company Land, although more likely it was the Kuril Is., or >simply a cloud bank. His erroneous longitudes, based on dead-reckoning, >caused difficulties for subsequent expeditions sent out to find the >islands. On his arrival at Acapulco in 1590, the unfortunate da Gama >was arrested and sent to Seville to stand trial. >The mysterious "Gamaland" made its first appearance on a map in 1642, >and was sought by VITUS BERING (q.v.) in 1741, although he never >believed in its existence. > >Chassigneux, E.: Rica de Oro et Rica del Plate (in Toung Pao, XXX, >1930). > >Here now is something about the second voyage of Sebastián Vizcaino. >Most commentators deal mainly with his first voyage, which resulted in >discoveries along the coast of California, while few seem to know much >about his second voyage. > >SEBASTIÁN VIZCAINO (II): >During the first decade of the seventeenth century the Japanese began to >think of establishing direct trading links with Mexico and Europe, >rather then sending their trade through Manila. In 1610 the Franciscan >ALONSO MUNOZ was sent to Mexico and Spain as a representative of the >emperor of Japan. As a result, in 1611, in preparation for the new >trade route, Sebastian Vizcaino was commissioned to sail from Acapulco >to Japan to seek permission for a survey of the coasts of the north >Pacific, and to open diplomatic links with Japan. He was also to search >for the fabulous islands of Rica de Oro and Rica de Plata (see PEDRO DE >UNAMUNO). Departing from Mexico on 22.3.11, he reached Japan on 10.6.11 >where he was received cordially by Ieyasu and given formal permission to >survey the east coast of Japan. During the survey he lost his ships in >a storm, but a replacement was provided by Date Masamune >(1566/67-1636/46), the lord of Sendai in northeastern Japan. Taking >with him an embassy headed by Masamune's retainer, HASEKURA ROKUEMON >(1571-1622), and accompanied by the Franciscan LUIS SOTELO (1574-1624), >Vizcaino finally left Japan on 21.10.13. The delegation, which >comprised 150 Japanese merchants and emissaries, carrying gifts from >Ieyasu, entered Mexico City in January 1614. While most of the embassy >remained in Mexico, twenty members continued to Spain and arrived in >Seville in October 1614. The embassy continued to Madrid, where a >reception was hosted by Philip III on 20.12.14, then toured Italy during >1615-16. Hasekura himself was baptized shortly after reaching Europe, >while requests were made for shipbuilders and pilots to be sent to >Japan. An agreement of reciprocity between Spanish and Japanese >shipping was arranged, while Sotelo, after propagandizing a new Japanese >mission throughout Europe, was appointed archbishop of Japan by Pope >Paul V. >Sotelo and Hasekura returned to the Philippines in 1618. Hasekura >reached Japan in 1620 but Sotelo remained in the Philippines for six >years, accused of attempting to violate the Manila trade. He finally >reached Japan in 1624, where he was martyred. >Vizcaino is last heard of in an action against pirates off Acapulco in >1616. > >You will notice that PEDRO DE UNAMUNO is mentioned twice in the above, >so here is something about him and the mysterious islands of the North >Pacific: > >PEDRO DE UNAMUNO: >Spanish navigator in the Pacific who was the first, in 1587, to search >for the fabulous islands of Rica de Oro and Rica del Plata. Unamuno was >the commander of the 1587 Manila galleon "Nuestra Senora de Esperanza" >and, in addition to searching for the fabulous islands, was instructed, >during his return voyage from the Philippines, to search for a suitable >harbour on the coast of California. He failed to find the islands, but >in the summer of 1587 sailed into Morro Bay and claimed the region for >the King of Spain. His visit was cut short due to Indian hostility. >The origin of the mythical islands, which continued to appear on the >maps for many years, lies with FRANCISCO GALI who, while in Macao in >1584, was told of a Portuguese vessel bound for Japan which had been >driven by a storm to an island far to the east, inhabited by a wealthy >white race. It appears that this island was originally known as either >Rica de Oro or Rica de Plata, but with the passing of time the two names >became associated with two separate islands. They were thus named, >according to GIOVANNI GEMELLI CARERI (q.v.), because some earth taken >from them, accidentally heated on a ship, was found to contain grains of >precious metal. There is an interesting mention of these islands on La >Frechette's "Chart of the Indian Ocean" (published by W. Faden, London, >1803). They are placed thereon in 32deg and 34degN, and in 160deg and >164degE respectively, with the following legend: "Kin-sima, la Rica de >Oro, or Gold Island. Gin-sima, la Rica de Plata, or Silver Island. >These Two Islands, which are Known to the Japanese, are laid down >according to the report of the former Spanich Navigators; they did >imagine till the middle of the last century, that Gin-sima and Kin-sima >were the Land of Ophir, since it could not be found in the Isles of >Solomon". The islands were sought in vain by SEBASTIAN VIZCAINO (1611), >JOAO DA GAMA (1590), MATTHIJS QUAST and MAARTEN VRIES. >The historian of the Philippines, ANTONIO DE MORGA, writing about the >route of the Manila galleons in the early seventeenth century, comments >as follows: "At the northern head of Japan, six hundred leagues from the >Philippines in thirty four degrees of latitude, stands Cape Sestos (= >Shichi-to, 120 miles south of Tokyo Bay). The galleon then sails >through other islands, which in fact are seldom sighted, in thirt eight >degrees, meeting dangers and storms, in a cold climate, and in the >vicinity of the two islands called Rica de Oro and Rica de Plata, which >again are seldom sighted. Once past them there lies a mighty sea of >open water where the galleon may run free in any weather". >In the early years of the seventeenth century the Japanese heard about >the islands and at one time tried to persuade WILLIAM ADAMS to conduct >an exploratory voyage to locate them. In 1606 the Spanish authorities >entertained the notion of setting up a way-station on the islands for >the re-provisioning of the galleons before their crossing of the >Pacific. In 1741, a request by the governor of the Philippines to >search for the islands was rejected by Philip V on the grounds that >"nothing justified the search". >In 1787 JEAN-FRANCOIS DE LA PEROUSE carried out a search for land in >165degE, 37deg30minN which his journal states was "where some >geographers have situated a great island, rich and with a large >population, discovered they say in 1620 by the Spanish". He quoted as >his source the collection of voyages published by Jean Berryat between >1755 and 1759. La Pérouse never expected to find anything, although his >editor, Milet-Mureau, added a lengthy marginal note expresssing regret >at the explorer's lack of faith. In a letter of 21 September 1787, sent >from Kamchatka, Pérouse states "I propose to sail from the Bay of >Awatska … whence I shall make for the 37th parallel to seek the land >claimed to have been discovered by the Spanish in 1610 [sic]. I do not >believe in the existence of this land which is very close to the >ordinary track of the galleons, and all the information I have obtained >leads me to think that the Spanish knew nothing about it". >The name of Roca de Plata persisted even into the twentieth century, >surviving a mysterious appearance Bartholomew's "Advanced Atlas of >Physical and Political Geography" of 1917, and in the "Times Survey >Atlas" of 1922 ! > >Chassigneux, E.: Rica de Oro et Rica del Plate (in Toung Pao, XXX, >1933). >Blair, Emma Helen & Robertson, James Alexander (eds.): The Philippine >Islands, 1493-1898. vol. XV (Cleveland 1903-09, 55 vols [for Spanish >proposals for a way-station: XIV, 182-8, 270-7]). >Murdoch, J.: History of Japan (Kobe & London 1903-26, 3 vols. [for the >Japanese interest in the islands, vol. II, p. 616]). >Torres y Lanzas, P. & Navas, F.: Catalogo de los documentos relativos a >las islas Filipinas (Barcelona 1925-34, 8 vols. [for Spanish documents >on the islands: V, 146, 161, 171, 206, 207; VI, 10, 12, 31-2, 44, 48, >64, 134, 145]). > >And finally ! > >FRANCISCO GALI: >(= Francisco de Gualle) Spanish navigator. In March 1582 he sailed from >Acapulco in Mexico, bound for the Philippines. From the Philippines he >continued to Macao, noticing Formosa (= Taiwan) en route. During the >return voyage in 1583, while commanding one of the ships returning from >Macao by way of Japan, he ventured much further to the northeast than >was normal, and reached the Californian coast, possibly at C. Mendocino, >from where he sailed south along the coast to Mexico. It is likely that >his was not the first of the Manila galleons to do so, and others may >have gone ashore for water or other supplies. Gali's report stirred >interest in the Californian coast and he was asked to advise on the >establishment of a permanent settlement as a way station for the Manila >galleons. However, a new viceroy proved indifferent to the idea, and >the scheme was dropped. In 1587 one of the Manila route ships, >captained by PEDRO DE UNAMUNO, sailed along the coast from 32degN to >39degN and anchored in Morro Bay (18.10.1587) From there some of the >crew penetrated inland as far as the site of San Luis Obispo. >Gali's report, prepared in 1585, was published in the 1598 edition of >Linschoten's "Itinerario" and in its contemporary English translation by >Wolfe. The first separate printing of Gali's voyage appeared as a >volume published at Amsterdam in 1638. > >Gali, Francisco: Viaje y decubrimientos y observaciones desde Acapulco a >Filipinas, desde Filipinas a Macao, y desde Macao a Acapulco (Amsterdam >1638). >Gualle, Francisco de: Voyage to Polynesia (in John Callander: Terra >Australis Cognita: or, voyages to the Terra Australis… (London >1766-68)). > >Best wishes > >Ray Howgego As a long suffering member of this list, I want to add my thanks to Professor Marques, Prof. Howgego and others who contributed to this very interesting and valuable discussion. It has renewed my hope that this list may develop some value. Thanks. Jonathan Rubinstein From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Sun Dec 3 02:16:45 2000 Received: from mailhost.tue.nl (mailhost.tue.nl [131.155.2.5]) by svfile1.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB31Gir00024 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 02:16:44 +0100 (MET) Received: from svin12.win.tue.nl (svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB317Zn28880; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 02:07:36 +0100 (MET) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eB3175326246 for discovery-list; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 02:07:05 +0100 (MET) X-Authentication-Warning: svin12.win.tue.nl: majordom set sender to owner-discovery@win.tue.nl using -f Received: from kweetal.tue.nl (kweetal.tue.nl [131.155.2.7]) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB316wK26242 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 02:06:59 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by kweetal.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB316vx08437 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 02:06:57 +0100 (MET) Received: from [139.142.113.99] (helo=[139.142.113.99]) by mail.islandnet.com with ESMTP id 142Nbw-0001zF-00 for discovery@win.tue.nl; Sat, 02 Dec 2000 17:06:36 -0800 X-Sender: baytext@pop.islandnet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3A28B333.156172C1@easynet.co.uk> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20001122134425.00adaa20@rellis@pop3.idt.net> from Richard Ellis at "Nov 22, 2000 1:45:19 pm" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 17:07:10 -0800 To: discovery@win.tue.nl From: baytext Subject: Re: [EXP] More on Yeso and Japan Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by svin12.win.tue.nl id eB316xK26243 Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: ROr In my article in the current Mercator's World I refer to Dudley's 1647/61 chart showing Iezo (Yeso) and the NW coast of America. I raised the question about why Dudley, an experienced navigator and cartographer with ample reference sources, including circumnavigaors Drake and Cavendish, elected to portray Iezo with only 9 degrees of longitude separation from America. This understated by almost an order of magnitude their true separation. Should he have identified that he was missing detail of almost a quarter of the Earth's circumference and acknowledged that in the mid-18th century there remained much that was terrae incognitae? Or did he just wish to conclude his sea atlas (the chart was the last one) by neatly closing off the circle? Any ideas, anyone, on Dudley's motives? Michael Layland >Thank you to everybody who has contributed to the discussion on the >charting of Hokkaido and Sakhalin. It is a most interesting region. As >a glance ay a world map of Aaron Arrowsmith will reveal, it was almost >the only section of temperate coastline not charted by 1800 (the only >other being the southern coast of Australia). > >In response to the last posting by Prof. Marques, here is something on >João da Gama and others involved in the search for the mythical islands >of the North Pacific. All of the following is extracted from my >database of expeditions (publication pending). Apologies for the length >of this posting, but some might find at least some of it of interest. > >JOÃO DA GAMA: >16th-century Portuguese sea-captain. In 1589, while serving as Captain >of Malacca, he was discovered to be involved in an illicit trade with >the Spanish in the Philippines. This black market, involving the >exchange of oriental silks for American gold, was quite commonplace, >although strictly illegal. To avoid being sent back to Portugal in >chains, da Gama decided to sail directly to Acapulco. The significance >of this voyage lies in the fact that while crossing the North Pacific, >da Gama claimed to have sighted land to the north of Japan. This land >was at the time identified with the fabulous lands of Rica de Oro and >Rica de Plata (searched for by PEDRO DE UNAMUNO in 1587), and even >(later) with Company Land, although more likely it was the Kuril Is., or >simply a cloud bank. His erroneous longitudes, based on dead-reckoning, >caused difficulties for subsequent expeditions sent out to find the >islands. On his arrival at Acapulco in 1590, the unfortunate da Gama >was arrested and sent to Seville to stand trial. >The mysterious "Gamaland" made its first appearance on a map in 1642, >and was sought by VITUS BERING (q.v.) in 1741, although he never >believed in its existence. > >Chassigneux, E.: Rica de Oro et Rica del Plate (in Toung Pao, XXX, >1930). > >Here now is something about the second voyage of Sebastián Vizcaino. >Most commentators deal mainly with his first voyage, which resulted in >discoveries along the coast of California, while few seem to know much >about his second voyage. > >SEBASTIÁN VIZCAINO (II): >During the first decade of the seventeenth century the Japanese began to >think of establishing direct trading links with Mexico and Europe, >rather then sending their trade through Manila. In 1610 the Franciscan >ALONSO MUNOZ was sent to Mexico and Spain as a representative of the >emperor of Japan. As a result, in 1611, in preparation for the new >trade route, Sebastian Vizcaino was commissioned to sail from Acapulco >to Japan to seek permission for a survey of the coasts of the north >Pacific, and to open diplomatic links with Japan. He was also to search >for the fabulous islands of Rica de Oro and Rica de Plata (see PEDRO DE >UNAMUNO). Departing from Mexico on 22.3.11, he reached Japan on 10.6.11 >where he was received cordially by Ieyasu and given formal permission to >survey the east coast of Japan. During the survey he lost his ships in >a storm, but a replacement was provided by Date Masamune >(1566/67-1636/46), the lord of Sendai in northeastern Japan. Taking >with him an embassy headed by Masamune's retainer, HASEKURA ROKUEMON >(1571-1622), and accompanied by the Franciscan LUIS SOTELO (1574-1624), >Vizcaino finally left Japan on 21.10.13. The delegation, which >comprised 150 Japanese merchants and emissaries, carrying gifts from >Ieyasu, entered Mexico City in January 1614. While most of the embassy >remained in Mexico, twenty members continued to Spain and arrived in >Seville in October 1614. The embassy continued to Madrid, where a >reception was hosted by Philip III on 20.12.14, then toured Italy during >1615-16. Hasekura himself was baptized shortly after reaching Europe, >while requests were made for shipbuilders and pilots to be sent to >Japan. An agreement of reciprocity between Spanish and Japanese >shipping was arranged, while Sotelo, after propagandizing a new Japanese >mission throughout Europe, was appointed archbishop of Japan by Pope >Paul V. >Sotelo and Hasekura returned to the Philippines in 1618. Hasekura >reached Japan in 1620 but Sotelo remained in the Philippines for six >years, accused of attempting to violate the Manila trade. He finally >reached Japan in 1624, where he was martyred. >Vizcaino is last heard of in an action against pirates off Acapulco in >1616. > >You will notice that PEDRO DE UNAMUNO is mentioned twice in the above, >so here is something about him and the mysterious islands of the North >Pacific: > >PEDRO DE UNAMUNO: >Spanish navigator in the Pacific who was the first, in 1587, to search >for the fabulous islands of Rica de Oro and Rica del Plata. Unamuno was >the commander of the 1587 Manila galleon "Nuestra Senora de Esperanza" >and, in addition to searching for the fabulous islands, was instructed, >during his return voyage from the Philippines, to search for a suitable >harbour on the coast of California. He failed to find the islands, but >in the summer of 1587 sailed into Morro Bay and claimed the region for >the King of Spain. His visit was cut short due to Indian hostility. >The origin of the mythical islands, which continued to appear on the >maps for many years, lies with FRANCISCO GALI who, while in Macao in >1584, was told of a Portuguese vessel bound for Japan which had been >driven by a storm to an island far to the east, inhabited by a wealthy >white race. It appears that this island was originally known as either >Rica de Oro or Rica de Plata, but with the passing of time the two names >became associated with two separate islands. They were thus named, >according to GIOVANNI GEMELLI CARERI (q.v.), because some earth taken >>from them, accidentally heated on a ship, was found to contain grains of >precious metal. There is an interesting mention of these islands on La >Frechette's "Chart of the Indian Ocean" (published by W. Faden, London, >1803). They are placed thereon in 32deg and 34degN, and in 160deg and >164degE respectively, with the following legend: "Kin-sima, la Rica de >Oro, or Gold Island. Gin-sima, la Rica de Plata, or Silver Island. >These Two Islands, which are Known to the Japanese, are laid down >according to the report of the former Spanich Navigators; they did >imagine till the middle of the last century, that Gin-sima and Kin-sima >were the Land of Ophir, since it could not be found in the Isles of >Solomon". The islands were sought in vain by SEBASTIAN VIZCAINO (1611), >JOAO DA GAMA (1590), MATTHIJS QUAST and MAARTEN VRIES. >The historian of the Philippines, ANTONIO DE MORGA, writing about the >route of the Manila galleons in the early seventeenth century, comments >as follows: "At the northern head of Japan, six hundred leagues from the >Philippines in thirty four degrees of latitude, stands Cape Sestos (= >Shichi-to, 120 miles south of Tokyo Bay). The galleon then sails >through other islands, which in fact are seldom sighted, in thirt eight >degrees, meeting dangers and storms, in a cold climate, and in the >vicinity of the two islands called Rica de Oro and Rica de Plata, which >again are seldom sighted. Once past them there lies a mighty sea of >open water where the galleon may run free in any weather". >In the early years of the seventeenth century the Japanese heard about >the islands and at one time tried to persuade WILLIAM ADAMS to conduct >an exploratory voyage to locate them. In 1606 the Spanish authorities >entertained the notion of setting up a way-station on the islands for >the re-provisioning of the galleons before their crossing of the >Pacific. In 1741, a request by the governor of the Philippines to >search for the islands was rejected by Philip V on the grounds that >"nothing justified the search". >In 1787 JEAN-FRANCOIS DE LA PEROUSE carried out a search for land in >165degE, 37deg30minN which his journal states was "where some >geographers have situated a great island, rich and with a large >population, discovered they say in 1620 by the Spanish". He quoted as >his source the collection of voyages published by Jean Berryat between >1755 and 1759. La Pérouse never expected to find anything, although his >editor, Milet-Mureau, added a lengthy marginal note expresssing regret >at the explorer's lack of faith. In a letter of 21 September 1787, sent >>from Kamchatka, Pérouse states "I propose to sail from the Bay of >>Awatska … whence I shall make for the 37th parallel to seek the land >claimed to have been discovered by the Spanish in 1610 [sic]. I do not >believe in the existence of this land which is very close to the >ordinary track of the galleons, and all the information I have obtained >leads me to think that the Spanish knew nothing about it". >The name of Roca de Plata persisted even into the twentieth century, >surviving a mysterious appearance Bartholomew's "Advanced Atlas of >Physical and Political Geography" of 1917, and in the "Times Survey >Atlas" of 1922 ! > >Chassigneux, E.: Rica de Oro et Rica del Plate (in Toung Pao, XXX, >1933). >Blair, Emma Helen & Robertson, James Alexander (eds.): The Philippine >Islands, 1493-1898. vol. XV (Cleveland 1903-09, 55 vols [for Spanish >proposals for a way-station: XIV, 182-8, 270-7]). >Murdoch, J.: History of Japan (Kobe & London 1903-26, 3 vols. [for the >Japanese interest in the islands, vol. II, p. 616]). >Torres y Lanzas, P. & Navas, F.: Catalogo de los documentos relativos a >las islas Filipinas (Barcelona 1925-34, 8 vols. [for Spanish documents >on the islands: V, 146, 161, 171, 206, 207; VI, 10, 12, 31-2, 44, 48, >64, 134, 145]). > >And finally ! > >FRANCISCO GALI: >(= Francisco de Gualle) Spanish navigator. In March 1582 he sailed from >Acapulco in Mexico, bound for the Philippines. From the Philippines he >continued to Macao, noticing Formosa (= Taiwan) en route. During the >return voyage in 1583, while commanding one of the ships returning from >Macao by way of Japan, he ventured much further to the northeast than >was normal, and reached the Californian coast, possibly at C. Mendocino, >>from where he sailed south along the coast to Mexico. It is likely that >his was not the first of the Manila galleons to do so, and others may >have gone ashore for water or other supplies. Gali's report stirred >interest in the Californian coast and he was asked to advise on the >establishment of a permanent settlement as a way station for the Manila >galleons. However, a new viceroy proved indifferent to the idea, and >the scheme was dropped. In 1587 one of the Manila route ships, >captained by PEDRO DE UNAMUNO, sailed along the coast from 32degN to >39degN and anchored in Morro Bay (18.10.1587) From there some of the >crew penetrated inland as far as the site of San Luis Obispo. >Gali's report, prepared in 1585, was published in the 1598 edition of >Linschoten's "Itinerario" and in its contemporary English translation by >Wolfe. The first separate printing of Gali's voyage appeared as a >volume published at Amsterdam in 1638. > >Gali, Francisco: Viaje y decubrimientos y observaciones desde Acapulco a >Filipinas, desde Filipinas a Macao, y desde Macao a Acapulco (Amsterdam >1638). >Gualle, Francisco de: Voyage to Polynesia (in John Callander: Terra >Australis Cognita: or, voyages to the Terra Australis… (London >1766-68)). > >Best wishes > >Ray Howgego From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Sun Dec 3 11:53:04 2000 Received: from mailhost.tue.nl (mailhost.tue.nl [131.155.2.5]) by svfile1.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB3Ar4r26088 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 11:53:04 +0100 (MET) Received: from svin12.win.tue.nl (svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB3AfNn06900; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 11:41:23 +0100 (MET) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eB3Aegc28412 for discovery-list; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 11:40:42 +0100 (MET) X-Authentication-Warning: svin12.win.tue.nl: majordom set sender to owner-discovery@win.tue.nl using -f Received: from kweetal.tue.nl (kweetal.tue.nl [131.155.2.7]) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB3AeaK28408 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 11:40:36 +0100 (MET) Received: from wsinfm15.win.tue.nl (wsinfm15.win.tue.nl [131.155.69.168]) by kweetal.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB3AeZx18418 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 11:40:35 +0100 (MET) Received: (from engels@localhost) by wsinfm15.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eB3AeY401948 for discovery@win.tue.nl; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 11:40:34 +0100 (MET) From: Andre Engels Message-Id: <200012031040.eB3AeY401948@wsinfm15.win.tue.nl> Subject: Re: [EXP] More on Yeso and Japan In-Reply-To: from baytext at "Dec 2, 2000 5: 7:10 pm" To: discovery@win.tue.nl Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 11:40:34 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: O Michael Layland wrote: > In my article in the current Mercator's World I refer to Dudley's 1647/61 > chart showing Iezo (Yeso) and the NW coast of America. I raised the > question about why Dudley, an experienced navigator and cartographer with > ample reference sources, including circumnavigaors Drake and Cavendish, > elected to portray Iezo with only 9 degrees of longitude separation from > America. This understated by almost an order of magnitude their true > separation. Should he have identified that he was missing detail of almost > a quarter of the Earth's circumference and acknowledged that in the > mid-18th century there remained much that was terrae incognitae? Or did he > just wish to conclude his sea atlas (the chart was the last one) by neatly > closing off the circle? > > Any ideas, anyone, on Dudley's motives? > > Michael Layland I have no copy of the map, nor of your article, so I can only make guesses. In the first place, at this time nobody had yet crossed the North Pacific. As such, its width would have to be inferred from other information. Most obvious candidate seems to be the width of the South Pacific, which had been crossed a few times. This width seems to have been under-estimated at the time. It is likely that this would lead to a similar North Pacific underestimation, but because it is smaller in the first place, relatively the effect would be greater. In the second place, the west coast of North America was depicted by some mapmakers of running westward rather than northward beyond California. Such a depiction would also fill up a large part of the gap. Finally, there is Vries's voyage, which could have affected this in two ways: In the first place because Yeso afterward was often shown on the maps as much larger than it actually should be, in the second place because he identified Compagnie's Land (Iturup) as North America. Note that because of the first two errors, Dudley actually finds himself in a tradition here: In the second half of the 16th century for example, Japan was often shown as lying at the entrance of the Strait of Anian, the strait believed to separate America from Asia. I just found a partial reproduction of the map, and it seems that it seems that both the first and the third effect apply - I cannot see whether America is slanting westward, but the North Pacific is about 1/3 of its true size (32 instead of 100 degrees of longitude), while Iezo is much broader than it is in reality (30 instead of 6 degrees). -- Andre Engels, engels@win.tue.nl telephone: +31-40-2474628 (work) +31-6-17774490 (mobile) http://www.win.tue.nl/~engels/index_en.html If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all -- Noam Chomsky From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Sun Dec 3 18:45:15 2000 Received: from mailhost.tue.nl (mailhost.tue.nl [131.155.2.5]) by svfile1.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB3HjFr14466 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 18:45:15 +0100 (MET) Received: from svin12.win.tue.nl (svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB3HcPn24598; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 18:38:25 +0100 (MET) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eB3Hbh000026 for discovery-list; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 18:37:43 +0100 (MET) X-Authentication-Warning: svin12.win.tue.nl: majordom set sender to owner-discovery@win.tue.nl using -f Received: from mailhost.tue.nl (mailhost.tue.nl [131.155.2.5]) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB3HbbK00022 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 18:37:37 +0100 (MET) Received: from yoda.dccnet.com (mail.deltacable.com [207.230.239.70]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB3HbZn24577 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 18:37:36 +0100 (MET) Received: from dccnet.com (unverified [216.13.174.254]) by yoda.dccnet.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 09:37:33 -0800 Message-ID: <3A2A764B.A82A37F7@dccnet.com> Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 09:35:24 -0700 From: jwood Organization: Joseph Wood Construction X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: discovery@win.tue.nl Subject: Re: [EXP] More on Dudley References: <200012031040.eB3AeY401948@wsinfm15.win.tue.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: RO Greetings: Dudley who's maps I believe are in Munich , although I could be wrong, created a series of plates that show in great detail, the Atlantic coast and the Pacific Northwest. These maps which stem from his familiarity with both Drake & Cavandish. Dudley's father was the paramour (lover) of Queen Elizabeth I, and while he was stuffed off to another palace in the kingdom as he was not the queen's child, the connection to power was about as close as it gets. The connection to Drake is reported by Sr. William Monson Admiral in his manuscript at the Bodelian in Oxford naming Dudley as a commander of the Maryrose, a 600 ton vessel with a crew of 250 men, and was knighted by Lord Essex at the battle of Cadiz. Further while I am not certain , he is reported to have married the daughter of Cavendish. To move on , what was contemporary with Drakes thought on the Pacific Northwest would have been what influenced Dudley the most. The wall map depicting Drakes voyage that hung in Whitehall in the gallery near the Privy Chamber was surely seen by him as a young man before he was outlawed by James I. The maps he made of the Pacific coast carry far to much detail to not have been transcribed from Drakes work. Drake is reported to have felt that the land veered off towards meeting with Asia. PERHAPS and the water gets murky here in "light " of new information placing Drake on the coast of Vancouver Island. the explorer simply continued the trend of the island to meet Asia. This would help to explain how that part of the Pacific was reduced in width. Since the date on the map is when it was printed , we must account for the preparation of drawings the mathematics of transcribing information from a log to a piece of paper , the finding of a competent engraver, and the long tedious process of engraving a plate. While other explorers might have traversed the North Pacific, unless they happened by Italy where Dudley was working, the information would have been more than likely derived from Drakes circumnavigation of 1580 Ralph Heading From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Mon Dec 4 09:53:15 2000 Received: from kweetal.tue.nl (kweetal.tue.nl [131.155.2.7]) by svfile1.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB48rEr23872 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 09:53:14 +0100 (MET) Received: from svin12.win.tue.nl (svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135]) by kweetal.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB48ipi03373; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 09:44:51 +0100 (MET) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eB48hpX04439 for discovery-list; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 09:43:51 +0100 (MET) X-Authentication-Warning: svin12.win.tue.nl: majordom set sender to owner-discovery@win.tue.nl using -f Received: from kweetal.tue.nl (kweetal.tue.nl [131.155.2.7]) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB48hjK04432 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 09:43:45 +0100 (MET) Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net [195.40.1.44]) by kweetal.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB48hii03235 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 09:43:44 +0100 (MET) Received: from hatfield.mail.uk.easynet.net (hatfield.mail.uk.easynet.net [195.40.1.39]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C5926F8908 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 08:43:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: (qmail 29574 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2000 08:43:43 -0000 Received: from howgego.easynet.co.uk (HELO easynet.co.uk) (193.131.251.131) by hatfield.mail.uk.easynet.net with SMTP; 4 Dec 2000 08:43:43 -0000 Message-ID: <3A2B5818.8B4446EE@easynet.co.uk> Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 08:38:48 +0000 From: Ray Howgego X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: discovery@win.tue.nl Subject: Re: [EXP] More on Yeso and Japan References: <200012031040.eB3AeY401948@wsinfm15.win.tue.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: RO The National Library of Russia is currently showing an exhibition of early maps of Siberia and has placed a number of images on its web site. They are all very interesting, but particularly fascinating is the 1734 map by the great Russian cartographer Ivan Kirilov. In his representation of the Pacific coast of Russia, Kirilov has attempted to combine information which I believe is partly derived from landward Chinese Jesuit surveys, with that of the voyage of Maarten Vries. The island of Sakhalin is shown with somewhat diminutive proportions off the mouth of the Amur, while the outline of Hokkaido is taken from Vries. Vries' discoveries are characterised by the extension of the northeast coast of Hokkaido into two long southward-pointing peninsulas. These peninsulas are the Mys Aniya and Mys Terpeniya, both of them actually on Sakhalin. The index page for the Russian exhibition is: http://ns.nlr.ru/exib/siberia/ The Kirilov map is at: http://ns.nlr.ru/exib/siberia/sib006.htm The map by Philip Strahlenberg (Tabbert) is also of interest, showing Japan almost in contact with the southernmost point of Kamchatka, and pre-dating the three voyages of Martin Spanberg, who was the first to properly establish the geographical relationship between Kamchatka, the Kurils, and Japan. Best wishes Ray From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Tue Dec 5 02:27:17 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eB51Q4P16318 for discovery-list; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 02:26:04 +0100 (MET) X-Authentication-Warning: svin12.win.tue.nl: majordom set sender to owner-discovery@win.tue.nl using -f Received: from kweetal.tue.nl (kweetal.tue.nl [131.155.2.7]) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB51Pw016314 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 02:25:59 +0100 (MET) Received: from yoda.dccnet.com (mail.deltacable.com [207.230.239.70]) by kweetal.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB51Pvi28473 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 02:25:58 +0100 (MET) Received: from dccnet.com (unverified [216.13.211.254]) by yoda.dccnet.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 17:25:47 -0800 Message-ID: <3A2C3589.8A7CA52D@dccnet.com> Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 17:23:38 -0700 From: jwood Organization: Joseph Wood Construction X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: discovery@win.tue.nl Subject: Re: [EXP] Did drake discover B.C.? References: <3.0.6.32.20000806151535.009a0100@mail.mcn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: RO Oliver: So- how did it go, the German thing? There was an interesting thing came through from the Washington Post ( owned by some religious cult , the Moonies I think) the ladies name was like Michael Lok. Anyway you come off as a foil to Raymond Acker, which is the first time a peep has come out of him yet. There was kind of a ping pong thing back and forth that read like a mixed doubles game . Certainly is a lot of stuff flying around about Drake in the west, and this particular article didn't even mention Bawlf. What do you suppose is behind all this interest; up here in BC what is happening is directly attributable to Sam, but Germany , the newspaper article that is something else. Reality has settled back in ,and my life as a serious researcher is over , just a flash , but what a rush. Ralph From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Fri Dec 15 11:27:38 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eBFAPw603809 for discovery-list; Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:25:58 +0100 (MET) X-Authentication-Warning: svin12.win.tue.nl: majordom set sender to owner-discovery@win.tue.nl using -f Received: from kweetal.tue.nl (kweetal.tue.nl [131.155.2.7]) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBFAPq003805 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:25:53 +0100 (MET) Received: from svbcf02.win.tue.nl (svbcf02.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.100]) by kweetal.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBFAPqA24264 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:25:52 +0100 (MET) Received: from kweetal.tue.nl (kweetal.tue.nl [131.155.2.7]) by svbcf02.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.1) with ESMTP id eBFAPm902700 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:25:51 +0100 (MET) Received: from giasdl01.vsnl.net.in (giasdl01.vsnl.net.in [202.54.15.1]) by kweetal.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBFAPjA24245 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:25:46 +0100 (MET) Received: from administrator (d1630.pppdel.vsnl.net.in [203.197.194.10]) by giasdl01.vsnl.net.in (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id PAA16723 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:59:23 -0500 (GMT) Message-ID: <004201c06681$8b709740$6be338ca@administrator> From: "Vedams Books International" To: Subject: [EXP] Book Announcement: Silk Road on Wheels : Travels Through Central Asia and Tibet/Akhil Bakshi Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:56:49 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003F_01C066AF.A25DCC60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C066AF.A25DCC60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Colleagues: A new book on the "Silk Route" has just been published. Detailed = description of this title has been provided on our website. Please click = on the following: http://www.vedamsbooks.com/no18761.htm >From the Blurb: "In a charming and hilarious account of this remarkable journey, the = audacious adventurer brings alive the excitement of Silk Road travel as = he visits ageing caravanserais; witnesses a Dumba fight; experiences the = thrill of the Kazakh steppe; enjoys the wondrous beauty of Kirghiz = lakes; chases double-humped camels in the foothills of the Tien Shans; = races gyrating whirlwinds and explores Buddhist caves in Taklamakan and = Gobi deserts; and rubs shoulders with yaks, nomads and monks in Tibet. "The tempestuousness of the times is felt through the pulse of = Timurlane, Chingiz Khan, Huen Tsang and Milarepa-who accompany the = author through their old haunts. "Silk Road On Wheels offers not only action and adventure, but also = social and political insights revealing twenty centuries of the Silk = Road." =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Please email us if you wish to acquire this title. The price of this = book is $20 and is inclusive of registered airmail postage and packing Best regards Sincerely achal madhavan ------------------------------------------------------ Vedams Books International 12A/11 W.E.Area, Post Box 2674 New Delhi 110 005, India http://www.vedamsbooks.com ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C066AF.A25DCC60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Colleagues:

A new book on = the "Silk=20 Route" has just been published. Detailed description of this title has = been=20 provided on our website. Please click on the following:
 
http://www.vedamsbooks.co= m/no18761.htm
 
From the=20 Blurb:

"In a charming and hilarious account of this remarkable = journey,=20 the audacious adventurer brings alive the excitement of Silk Road travel = as he=20 visits ageing caravanserais; witnesses a Dumba fight; experiences the = thrill of=20 the Kazakh steppe; enjoys the wondrous beauty of Kirghiz lakes; chases=20 double-humped camels in the foothills of the Tien Shans; races gyrating=20 whirlwinds and explores Buddhist caves in Taklamakan and Gobi deserts; = and rubs=20 shoulders with yaks, nomads and monks in Tibet.

"The tempestuousness of the times is felt through the = pulse of=20 Timurlane, Chingiz Khan, Huen Tsang and Milarepa—who accompany the = author=20 through their old haunts.

"Silk Road On Wheels offers not only action and = adventure, but=20 also social and political insights revealing twenty centuries of the = Silk=20 Road."

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D

Please email us if you wish = to acquire=20 this title. The price of this book is $20 and is inclusive of registered = airmail=20 postage and packing

Best regards

Sincerely

achal = madhavan

------------------------------------------------------
Vedams= Books=20 International
12A/11 W.E.Area, Post Box 2674
New Delhi 110 005,=20 India
http://www.vedamsbooks.com
------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C066AF.A25DCC60-- From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Sat Dec 30 16:21:41 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eBUFKHm06705 for discovery-list; Sat, 30 Dec 2000 16:20:17 +0100 (MET) X-Authentication-Warning: svin12.win.tue.nl: majordom set sender to owner-discovery@win.tue.nl using -f Received: from kweetal.tue.nl (kweetal.tue.nl [131.155.2.7]) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBUFKA006701 for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2000 16:20:10 +0100 (MET) Received: from svbcf02.win.tue.nl (svbcf02.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.100]) by kweetal.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBUFKAA28121 for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2000 16:20:10 +0100 (MET) Received: from mailhost.tue.nl (mailhost.tue.nl [131.155.2.5]) by svbcf02.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.1) with ESMTP id eBUFK9918008 for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2000 16:20:09 +0100 (MET) Received: from morpheus.skynet.be (morpheus.skynet.be [195.238.2.39]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBUFK9S16987 for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2000 16:20:09 +0100 (MET) Received: from h8f5f4 (adsl-5836.turboline.skynet.be [62.4.182.204]) by morpheus.skynet.be (Postfix) with SMTP id 3B08FF147 for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2000 16:20:03 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <000901c07273$73c6fc80$ccb6043e@h8f5f4> From: "Johan Deckers" To: "discoverylist" Subject: [EXP] piet heyn Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 16:16:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: RO for some time i don't receive any messages from the discoverylist. Is there a problem? Now I'd like to aks for some information about the famous dutch pirate Piet Heyn. What I want to know is how he died and what Ostend privateers where involved. Best wishes for a happy and healthy 2001 Johan Deckers From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Sat Dec 30 16:48:27 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eBUFm2J06766 for discovery-list; Sat, 30 Dec 2000 16:48:02 +0100 (MET) X-Authentication-Warning: svin12.win.tue.nl: majordom set sender to owner-discovery@win.tue.nl using -f Received: from mailhost.tue.nl (mailhost.tue.nl [131.155.2.5]) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBUFlu006762 for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2000 16:47:56 +0100 (MET) Received: from svbcf02.win.tue.nl (svbcf02.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.100]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBUFluS17592 for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2000 16:47:56 +0100 (MET) Received: from kweetal.tue.nl (kweetal.tue.nl [131.155.2.7]) by svbcf02.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.1) with ESMTP id eBUFlt918309 for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2000 16:47:55 +0100 (MET) Received: from pws.gamewood.net (IDENT:root@pws.gamewood.net [199.0.155.48]) by kweetal.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBUFlsA28952 for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2000 16:47:55 +0100 (MET) Received: from default.gamewood.net (bhmx0114.pubip.gamewood.net [208.30.87.29]) by pws.gamewood.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23111 for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2000 10:47:51 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20001230104326.00a9fd70@pop.gamewood.net> X-Sender: jsk@pop.gamewood.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 10:52:19 -0500 To: discovery@win.tue.nl From: Joel Kovarsky Subject: Re: [EXP] piet heyn In-Reply-To: <000901c07273$73c6fc80$ccb6043e@h8f5f4> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: RO Look at: There are some added references and possible contacts there. >Now I'd like to aks for some information about the famous dutch pirate Piet >Heyn. >What I want to know is how he died and what Ostend privateers where >involved. >Best wishes for a happy and healthy 2001 > >Johan Deckers From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Sat Dec 30 17:35:30 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eBUGZ1F06846 for discovery-list; Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:35:01 +0100 (MET) X-Authentication-Warning: svin12.win.tue.nl: majordom set sender to owner-discovery@win.tue.nl using -f Received: from mailhost.tue.nl (mailhost.tue.nl [131.155.2.5]) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBUGYt006842 for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:34:55 +0100 (MET) Received: from svbcf02.win.tue.nl (svbcf02.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.100]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBUGYsS18897 for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:34:54 +0100 (MET) Received: from mailhost.tue.nl (mailhost.tue.nl [131.155.2.5]) by svbcf02.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.1) with ESMTP id eBUGYr918844 for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:34:54 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail.dreamcity.co.kr ([211.188.160.29]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBUGYqS18893 for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:34:52 +0100 (MET) Received: from savenije.henny-savenije.demon.nl ([211.188.138.13]) by mail.dreamcity.co.kr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA21969 for ; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 02:01:19 +0900 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20001231010237.04b43760@pop3.demon.nl> X-Sender: henny-savenije@pop3.demon.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 01:45:45 +0900 To: discovery@win.tue.nl From: Henny Savenije Subject: Re: [EXP] piet heyn In-Reply-To: <000901c07273$73c6fc80$ccb6043e@h8f5f4> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: RO At 12:16 AM 12/31/00, you wrote: >for some time i don't receive any messages from the discoverylist. Is >there a problem? > >Now I'd like to aks for some information about the famous dutch pirate >Piet Heyn. >What I want to know is how he died and what Ostend privateers where involved. Well I couldn't find much on the internet, but here is one site: http://www.hmr.rotterdam.nl/nl/publikat/vouwblad/vb006.htm (In Dutch) http://www.generali.nl/scheepvaartmuseum/programma/museumnacht_1111.htm The following refers to Piet Hein, with the title Helden hoezo? (Heroes, what do you mean?) Al interesting, and in Dutch, but with the latter site, they might know more. BTW you are not the only one looking for data, this is what I found somewhere else. Dinsdag 10 Mar '98, 18:36 MET N.G.M. Roof, NL Ben op zoek naar gegevens over Piet Hein Looking for data about Piet Hein Since this question already came up in 1998, he might know more. >Best wishes for a happy and healthy 2001 All the best and happiness in 2001 Henny (Lee Hae Kang) ----------------------------- Feel free to discover Korea with Hendrick Hamel (1653-1666) http://www.henny-savenije.demon.nl (in English) In Korean http://www.henny-savenije.demon.nl/indexk2.htm In Dutch http://www.henny-savenije.demon.nl/Dutch Frits Vos Article about Witsen and Eibokken and his first Korean-Dutch dictionary http://www.henny-savenije.demon.nl/FritsVos Korea through Western Cartographic eyes http://www.crosswinds.net/~hennysavenije/ (in English) Hwasong the fortress in Suwon http://www.geocities.com/hennysavenije From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Sun Dec 31 09:33:04 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eBV8Tr508443 for discovery-list; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 09:29:53 +0100 (MET) X-Authentication-Warning: svin12.win.tue.nl: majordom set sender to owner-discovery@win.tue.nl using -f Received: from mailhost.tue.nl (mailhost.tue.nl [131.155.2.5]) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBV8Tl008439 for ; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 09:29:47 +0100 (MET) Received: from svbcf02.win.tue.nl (svbcf02.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.100]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBV8TkS06657 for ; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 09:29:46 +0100 (MET) Received: from kweetal.tue.nl (kweetal.tue.nl [131.155.2.7]) by svbcf02.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.1) with ESMTP id eBV8Tk928778 for ; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 09:29:46 +0100 (MET) Received: from relay2.austria.eu.net (endjinn.austria.eu.net [193.81.13.2]) by kweetal.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBV8TjA22019 for ; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 09:29:45 +0100 (MET) Received: from eunet.at (dialup059.ap01-wien.AT.KPNQwest.net [193.154.184.59]) by relay2.austria.eu.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id eBV8ThD19945 for ; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 09:29:44 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3A4EEEAD.D89D62F@eunet.at> Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 09:30:37 +0100 From: HFK Organization: Castaway Network Systems X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "discovery@win.tue.nl" Subject: [EXP] from Vienna 31 12 2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: RO To all members of this list all my best wishes for a successful 2001 Hermann F. Koerbel Vienna, Austria ****************************************** ARCTIC and ANTARCTIC Advice Agency Austria http://www.arctic.at the only true POLAR INFORMATION in Austria including the History of the Austrian Polar Exploration ****************************************** From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Sun Dec 31 12:26:15 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eBVBLL408795 for discovery-list; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:21:21 +0100 (MET) X-Authentication-Warning: svin12.win.tue.nl: majordom set sender to owner-discovery@win.tue.nl using -f Received: from mailhost.tue.nl (mailhost.tue.nl [131.155.2.5]) by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBVBLF008791 for ; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:21:15 +0100 (MET) Received: from svbcf02.win.tue.nl (svbcf02.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.100]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBVBLES09311 for ; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:21:14 +0100 (MET) Received: from mailhost.tue.nl (mailhost.tue.nl [131.155.2.5]) by svbcf02.win.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.1) with ESMTP id eBVBLD900349 for ; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:21:14 +0100 (MET) Received: from sunny1.pacific.net.ph (sunny1.pacific.net.ph [210.23.234.92]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBVBLBS09307 for ; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:21:12 +0100 (MET) Received: from pop2.pacific.net.ph (pop2.pacific.net.ph [210.23.234.90]) by sunny1.pacific.net.ph (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA09216 for ; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 19:21:07 +0800 (PHT) Received: from default (ppp244.dyn240.pacific.net.ph [210.23.240.244]) by pop2.pacific.net.ph with SMTP id TAA00298 for ; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 19:21:07 +0800 (PHT) Message-ID: <001501c0728c$c81cea60$f4f017d2@default> From: "vicente c. de jesus" To: Subject: [EXP] Warm hopes for the coming year Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 02:17:33 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C072CF.D5A17960" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C072CF.D5A17960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To one and all who belong to this select list, With best wishes for the New Year! May we all navigate through 2001 and = each find a safe harbor. Vicente C. de Jesus Philippines ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C072CF.D5A17960 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To one and all who belong to this select list,
 
With best wishes for the New Year! May we all navigate through 2001 = and=20 each find a safe harbor.
 
Vicente C. de Jesus
Philippines
------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C072CF.D5A17960--