From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Thu Apr 2 18:29:15 1998 Received: from svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135] by svin04.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id SAA26131 (ESMTP). Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:29:14 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from majordom@localhost by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for discovery-list id SAA25436. Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:22:27 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@svin07 [131.155.70.232] by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id SAA25432 (ESMTP). Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:22:23 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mhc.mtholyoke.edu [138.110.1.1] by svin07.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id SAA13882 (ESMTP). Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:22:20 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from mmcmenam@localhost) by mhc.mtholyoke.edu (8.7.3mhc/v980215-38) id LAA01275 for discovery@win.tue.nl; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 11:21:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 11:21:41 -0500 (EST) From: "Mark A. Mcmenamin" Message-Id: <199804021621.LAA01275@mhc.mtholyoke.edu> To: discovery@win.tue.nl Subject: [EXP] OMNI online Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: OR OMNI magazine online has a new article that may be of interest to those who have followed the discussions regarding maps on Carthaginian coins: http://www.omnimag.com/antimatter/new/ancient.html From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Thu Apr 2 21:55:58 1998 Received: from svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135] by svin04.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id VAA28299 (ESMTP). Thu, 2 Apr 1998 21:55:58 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from majordom@localhost by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for discovery-list id VAA26171. Thu, 2 Apr 1998 21:50:55 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@svin03 [131.155.70.153] by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id VAA26167 (ESMTP). Thu, 2 Apr 1998 21:50:50 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from uconnvm.uconn.edu [137.99.26.3] by svin03.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id VAA02502 (SMTP). Thu, 2 Apr 1998 21:50:46 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from Nebraska.Geog.uconn.edu by UConnVM.UConn.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Thu, 02 Apr 98 14:50:46 EST From: "John L. Allen" To: "Exploration and Discovery" Subject: [EXP] North American Exploration, vol. 3 Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:46:57 -0500 Message-ID: <01bd5e70$18734ec0$17286389@Nebraska.Geog.uconn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01BD5E46.2F9D46C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: OR This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BD5E46.2F9D46C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends, I didn't want to post this message yesterday since I was afraid it might = get lost or misunderstood in the maze of amusing April Fools' hoaxes. = I'm posting this to both MAPHIST and the Discovery discussion groups so = those of you who are on both, please forgive the double intrusion. Several of you have contacted me regarding the maps in the third and = final volume of NORTH AMERICAN EXPLORATION (John L. Allen, ed., Univ. = of. Nebraska Press, 1997). This is a reply to all of you and to any = other interested parties. Yes, the maps purporting to show explorers' routes are atrocious--too = small to be read easily. Yes, the publisher treated me and the = contributing authors cruelly. No, there was nothing I could have done = about it. The first time I saw the maps worked into the text was at the = galley proof stage. I knew then that they would be virtually unreadable = without a magnifying glass; I complained to the publisher and was told = that to change the maps would require the whole volume to be reset. The = publisher could not afford to do that, and the volume would need to go = as it was or not at all. Not wanting to scrap the culminating volume of = a project that two dozen of us had worked on for nearly a decade, I bit = the bullet. As consolation, the publisher has promised to make sure that = this doesn't happen to anyone else on their future lists who might want = to use maps as data rather than simply as illustration. But that's no consolation to you. Those of you who have purchased or = otherwise acquired the third volume of NORTH AMERICAN EXPLORATION have = some great textual material and even some decent reproductions of old = maps--but you can't read the twenty or so chapter-specific maps that lay = out routes of exploration. So let's do this: If you've bought the NORTH = AMERICAN EXPLORATION third volume (or acquired it as a review copy, or = gift, or however) or if you're even planning on buying it, send me your = name and address by e-mail to: jlallen@snet.net. I've retained the = cartographer's originals and, from those, will print copies, letter-size = (8.5" x 11.0") format at 1200 dpi, on quality stock paper and send them = to you. I'll pay the postage (including overseas) and everything = else--all you need to do is supply me with your name and address. It = won't be the same as having the maps bound in the book in a readable = fashion as should have been done by the publisher. But it'll be the next = best thing--or at least the next best thing I can think of. I'll look forward to hearing from you and you'll be getting your copies = of readable maps in short order after I get the necessary mailing = information. Cordially, John L. Allen Geography, Univ. of Connecticut ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BD5E46.2F9D46C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Friends,
 
I didn't want to post this message = yesterday=20 since I was afraid it might get lost or misunderstood in the maze of = amusing=20 April Fools' hoaxes. I'm posting this to both MAPHIST and the Discovery=20 discussion groups so those of you who are on both, please forgive the = double=20 intrusion.
 
Several of you have contacted me = regarding the=20 maps in the third and final volume of NORTH AMERICAN EXPLORATION (John = L. Allen,=20 ed., Univ. of. Nebraska Press, 1997). This is a reply to all of you and = to any=20 other interested parties.
 
Yes, the maps purporting to show = explorers'=20 routes are atrocious--too small to be read easily. Yes, the publisher = treated me=20 and the contributing authors cruelly. No, there was nothing I could have = done=20 about it. The first time I saw the maps worked into the text was at the = galley=20 proof stage. I knew then that they would be virtually unreadable without = a=20 magnifying glass; I complained to the publisher and was told that to = change the=20 maps would require the whole volume to be reset. The publisher could not = afford=20 to do that, and the volume would need to go as it was or not at all. Not = wanting=20 to scrap the culminating volume of a project that two dozen of us had = worked on=20 for nearly a decade, I bit the bullet. As consolation, the publisher has = promised to make sure that this doesn't happen to anyone else on their = future=20 lists who might want to use maps as data rather than simply as=20 illustration.
 
But that's no consolation to you. = Those of you=20 who have purchased or otherwise acquired the third volume of NORTH = AMERICAN=20 EXPLORATION have some great textual material and even some decent = reproductions=20 of old maps--but you can't read the twenty or so chapter-specific maps = that lay=20 out routes of exploration. So let's do this: If you've bought the NORTH = AMERICAN=20 EXPLORATION third volume (or acquired it as a review copy, or gift, or = however)=20 or if you're even planning on buying it, send me your name and address = by e-mail=20 to: jlallen@snet.net. I've = retained the=20 cartographer's originals and, from those, will print copies, letter-size = (8.5" x 11.0") format at 1200 dpi, on quality stock paper and = send=20 them to you. I'll pay the postage (including overseas) and everything = else--all=20 you need to do is supply me with your name and address. It won't be the = same as=20 having the maps bound in the book in a readable fashion as should have = been done=20 by the publisher. But it'll be the next best thing--or at least the next = best=20 thing I can think of.
 
I'll look forward to hearing from = you and you'll=20 be getting your copies of readable maps in short order after I get the = necessary=20 mailing information.
 
Cordially,
 
John L. Allen
Geography, Univ. of Connecticut 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BD5E46.2F9D46C0-- From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Fri Apr 3 19:33:55 1998 Received: from svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135] by svin04.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id TAA23678 (ESMTP). Fri, 3 Apr 1998 19:33:55 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from majordom@localhost by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for discovery-list id TAA28978. Fri, 3 Apr 1998 19:31:30 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@svin03 [131.155.70.153] by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id TAA28974 (ESMTP). Fri, 3 Apr 1998 19:31:25 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from f121.hotmail.com [207.82.250.214] by svin03.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id TAA16342 (SMTP). Fri, 3 Apr 1998 19:31:14 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 10108 invoked by uid 0); 3 Apr 1998 17:30:34 -0000 Message-ID: <19980403173034.10097.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 199.107.144.2 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 03 Apr 1998 09:30:31 PST X-Originating-IP: [199.107.144.2] From: "Gregory McIntosh" To: discovery@win.tue.nl Subject: [EXP] Re: OMNI online Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 09:30:31 PST Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: OR Mark, In the OMNI article it is stated that you were "immediately struck by how much they [the coin maps] resembled maps by Ptolemy, the Greek astronomer and geographer." One of the noteworthy and distinctive features of the maps of Ptolemy is that the Indian Ocean is enclosed and landlocked. I do not see this feature on the so-called coin map. Instead, on the coin map illustrated in the article I see an open ocean to India (as I understand India to be on the map, per your previous publications). India on the coin map is an island, not as on the maps of Ptolemy. What was the resemblance you saw between the coin maps and the maps of Ptolemy? To explain why the New World is drawn so differently on the different coins, you state: "I believe that the western land is shown as different shapes on different coins because it is intended to portray different parts of the New World." Okay. Now tell me why the cartographers did that to the depiction of the New World. Why did they portray differing parts of the New World on differing coins? Greg McIntosh plusultra@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Fri Apr 3 21:01:50 1998 Received: from svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135] by svin04.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id VAA24390 (ESMTP). Fri, 3 Apr 1998 21:01:50 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from majordom@localhost by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for discovery-list id VAA29154. Fri, 3 Apr 1998 21:00:57 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@svbs01 [131.155.69.3] by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id VAA29150 (ESMTP). Fri, 3 Apr 1998 21:00:53 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mhc.mtholyoke.edu [138.110.1.1] by svbs01.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id VAA11407 (ESMTP). Fri, 3 Apr 1998 21:00:08 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from mmcmenam@localhost) by mhc.mtholyoke.edu (8.7.3mhc/v980215-38) id NAA20119; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:59:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:59:00 -0500 (EST) From: "Mark A. Mcmenamin" Message-Id: <199804031859.NAA20119@mhc.mtholyoke.edu> To: discovery@win.tue.nl Subject: Re: [EXP] Re: OMNI online Cc: mmcmenam@mhc.mtholyoke.edu Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: OR Greg, When Peter Enggass first showed me his copy of a Ptolemy map (this must have been between 1984 and 1986), I was struck by how rectangular the Mediterranean basin appeared in this cartographic rendering. The Indian ocean also appears rectangular, almost like an expanded version of the Mediterranean. When I observed the curious coin pattern, I didn't know what to make of it at first. After studying it for a while, I made some sketches. I was very intrigued by the rectangular depression in the exergue of one of the coins (the one shown on the cover of the May/June 1997 issue of Mercator's World). Kind of like, I thought, a Ptolemaic or T-O globe ocean basin. The coin-map idea took off from there. As to why Phoenician cartographers portrayed different parts of the New World on different coin maps, I have no idea but I could make some speculative suggestions. Perhaps the miniature maps represent portrayals of separate voyages. This would imply that multiple voyages had been made to different parts of the North and South Americas. Mark From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Sun Apr 5 04:13:20 1998 Received: from svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135] by svin04.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id EAA27952 (ESMTP). Sun, 5 Apr 1998 04:13:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from majordom@localhost by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for discovery-list id EAA01807. Sun, 5 Apr 1998 04:11:14 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@svin10 [131.155.70.127] by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id EAA01803 (ESMTP). Sun, 5 Apr 1998 04:11:08 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@mail.minn.net [208.16.88.2] by svin10.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id EAA27436 (ESMTP). Sun, 5 Apr 1998 04:11:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from PC_keithp.minn.net (dialup-pm5-5.minn.net [208.16.89.135]) by mail.minn.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA14509 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 20:10:59 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <01bd5fc3$2ebf6ac0$38c940cb@ncue.ncue.edu.tw> References: Conversation <01bd5fc3$2ebf6ac0$38c940cb@ncue.ncue.edu.tw> with last message <01bd5fc3$2ebf6ac0$38c940cb@ncue.ncue.edu.tw> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: "Discovery list" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Keith Pickering" Subject: [EXP] Fw: Please help me Date: Sat, 04 Apr 98 11:56:53 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: OR I recieved the following the following query today. Since it is beyond my area of expertise, I am wondering if any on the list can help. Please reply directly to Jackie at the e-mail address below. Keith Pickering keithp@minn.net |====================================== | Visit the Columbus Navigation Homepage | http://www1.minn.net/~keithp |====================================== ---------- > Date: Saturday, April 04, 1998 04:14:13 > From: ³¯¨|À² > To: keithp@minn.net > Subject: Please help me > > Dear Sir: > I am a student in Taiwan. I want to write a paper about spice and sugar > trade in England and Europe between 16th and 17th century. Could you tell me > what the web site can help me the write this paper. My E-mail address is > 8513031@cc.ncue.edu.tw > Sincerely > Jackie > From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Sat Apr 11 05:30:16 1998 Received: from svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135] by svin04.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id FAA07704 (ESMTP). Sat, 11 Apr 1998 05:30:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from majordom@localhost by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for discovery-list id FAA14207. Sat, 11 Apr 1998 05:25:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@svin07 [131.155.70.232] by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id FAA14203 (ESMTP). Sat, 11 Apr 1998 05:25:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from freddie.vianet.net.au [203.13.35.39] by svin07.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id FAA15692 (ESMTP). Sat, 11 Apr 1998 05:25:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from [203.26.237.138] (jimiM8.vianet.net.au [203.26.237.138]) by freddie.vianet.net.au (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA02569 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 11:46:07 +0800 X-Sender: duyfken@pop.vianet.net.au Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 11:24:24 +0800 To: discovery@win.tue.nl From: Duyfken@vianet.net.au (Duyfken Foundation) Subject: [EXP] Jasper J de Jong and Duyfken Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: OR Hi, my first posting to Discovery list. The Dutch jacht Duyfken made the first historically recorded voyage to Australia (of course people had crossed the sea to Australia before Duyfken's voyage, but there is no historical record of their voyaging). The evidence for Duyfken's voyage include comments in Carstenszoon's journal, notes in VOC documents, the Journal of English merchant Saris, and most importantly a chart which shows the portion of the Cape York Peninsula which Duyfken surveyed in 1606. The "Duyfken chart" is a composit of three, or more, maps, two of which were certainly made as a result of Duyfken's voyages. The legend in the top right of the map says (in translation); "This map shows the routes taken by the jacht Duijfien on the outward, as well as the return voyage when she visited the countries east of Banda. But Guli Guli on Ceran and Ceram, etc is after the survey drawn by Abraham Francken anno 1602, done 20th April, and Nieuw Zelant with the Gunung Api east of there has been sailed about by Jasper Janssen de Jonge." Abraham Francken was Upper Steersman on Duyfken, a post to which he was promoted on the voyage out to the Indies in Harmenszoon's fleet in 1601 at Mauritius. Duyfken was sent exploring eastwards from Banda while the larger ships loaded in early 1602. Jasper Janssen de Jonge was an assistant Governor at Ambon under Fredrick de Houtman between 1608 and 1611 and succeeded de Houtman there in 1611. His earlier history has not yet been traced in any detail. Mollema (Geschiedenis van der Nederland ter Zee, 1942 IV: E 17) says that he was a Steersman in Matlief's fleet of 1605 and became an Upper Steersman in 1607, but does not say which ships he served on. We have been unable to discover whether he sailed on Duyfken or another vessel. Does anyone on the Discovery list know anything more of this J.J. de Jong? Nick Burningham Duyfken 1606 Replica Foundation See us on: http://www.duyfken.org.au latest progress on: http://www.duyfken.org.au/progress/progress.html Western Australian Maritime Museum, Cliff St. Fremantle, WA 6160, Australia. Tel 61 (0)8 9336 1606 Fax 61 (0)8 9336 4688 From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Thu Apr 16 02:03:25 1998 Received: from svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135] by svin04.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id CAA19331 (ESMTP). Thu, 16 Apr 1998 02:03:25 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from majordom@localhost by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for discovery-list id BAA25944. Thu, 16 Apr 1998 01:57:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@svin07 [131.155.70.232] by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id BAA25940 (ESMTP). Thu, 16 Apr 1998 01:56:55 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from f4.hotmail.com [207.82.250.15] by svin07.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id BAA05886 (SMTP). Thu, 16 Apr 1998 01:56:55 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 23582 invoked by uid 0); 15 Apr 1998 23:56:24 -0000 Message-ID: <19980415235624.23581.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 199.107.144.2 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 16:56:24 PDT X-Originating-IP: [199.107.144.2] From: "Gregory McIntosh" To: discovery@win.tue.nl Cc: MAPHIST@harvarda.harvard.edu Subject: [EXP] Ruddock Book Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 16:56:24 PDT Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: OR In the late 1970s Alwyn A. Ruddock had a forthcoming book entitled . I presume it is an expansion of her work on John Day and the Bristol merchants. Does anyone know if this book was ever published. Thanks, Greg McIntosh plusultra@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Tue Apr 21 23:38:49 1998 Received: from svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135] by svin04.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id XAA12909 (ESMTP). Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:38:49 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from majordom@localhost by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for discovery-list id XAA12707. Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:34:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@svin03 [131.155.70.153] by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id XAA12703 (ESMTP). Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:34:02 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@rangitoto-3.ait.ac.nz [156.62.3.12] by svin03.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id XAA26789 (ESMTP). Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:33:54 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from root@localhost) by rangitoto.ait.ac.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA26458 for discovery@win.tue.nl; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:33:42 +1200 Received: from eden.ait.ac.nz(156.62.1.10) by rangitoto.ait.ac.nz via smap (V2.0) id xma026450; Wed, 22 Apr 98 09:33:33 +1200 Received: from howick.ait.ac.nz (howick.ait.ac.nz [156.62.99.6]) by eden.ait.ac.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA03470 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:33:33 +1200 Received: from HOWICK/SpoolDir by howick.ait.ac.nz (Mercury 1.32); 22 Apr 98 09:33:35 +1200 Received: from SpoolDir by HOWICK (Mercury 1.32); 22 Apr 98 09:33:10 +1200 From: "Erik Champion" Organization: AIT To: discovery@win.tue.nl Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:32:59 NZST+1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [EXP] Spanish explorers and the Marianas Islands Message-ID: <897B6C1DAB@howick.ait.ac.nz> Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: OR Hi! I am new to the list but would really appreciate a bit of info. I am trying to find information in the form of books recounting manuscript/diary form acoounts by the Spanish explorers of the marianas, and of the Phillippines The books / manuscripts need to be in Spanish and pref written by explorers rather than by the Jesuits as I am most interested in what the explorers had to say about the native peoples... As the manuscripts have to be visited I would preferably find books or transcripts of these diaries/manuscripts as they can be ordered or airmailed to me regards Erik From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Wed Apr 22 01:19:32 1998 Received: from svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135] by svin04.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id BAA13745 (ESMTP). Wed, 22 Apr 1998 01:19:32 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from majordom@localhost by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for discovery-list id BAA13093. Wed, 22 Apr 1998 01:17:30 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@svin08 [131.155.70.71] by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id BAA13089 (ESMTP). Wed, 22 Apr 1998 01:17:26 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@ns2.agora.dk [194.19.128.20] by svin08.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id BAA20714 (ESMTP). Wed, 22 Apr 1998 01:17:23 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from 194.19.128.101 (pc01.agora.dk [194.19.128.101]) by heimdal.agora.dk (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA14534 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:20:12 +0200 Message-ID: <353D387F.9A5@apple.agora.dk> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:23:27 +0000 From: Wild Goose Organization: Aa-Tchoo! Film X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: discovery@win.tue.nl Subject: Re: [EXP] Spanish explorers and the Marianas Islands References: <897B6C1DAB@howick.ait.ac.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: OR Hi, Erik! You wrote: > > Hi! > I am new to the list but would really appreciate a bit of info. Don't be shy. It's a totally new list, anyway! Please post to the list, itself. Please, please, please! I'm afraid I don't know of any books about the Marianas or Philippines but I would love to know if there are any. I don't even know where the Marianas are!! I've actually read only a few books in this area - that's why I started the list, to hear of more! I have also heard of an explorers' site and list. Have you heard of them? If not, I can dig up the info for you. The only reason I haven't forwarded a copy of your message to the list is that I don't know whether this would bother you. You might have your reasons to hold back. But I ask you now to DO IT!! Or just reply to me and ask me to forward your message to the list, if you prefer. - if you're too shy or want to remain anonymous, for example. I wish you lots of luck with your research and ask again that you post to the list - please ... WG. > I am trying to find information in the form of books recounting > manuscript/diary form acoounts by the Spanish explorers of the > marianas, and of the Phillippines > The books / manuscripts need to be in Spanish and pref written by > explorers rather than by the Jesuits as I am most interested in what > the explorers had to say about the native peoples... > As the manuscripts have to be visited I would preferably find books > or transcripts of these diaries/manuscripts as they can be > ordered or airmailed to me > regards Erik From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Wed Apr 22 02:25:50 1998 Received: from svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135] by svin04.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id CAA14089 (ESMTP). Wed, 22 Apr 1998 02:25:50 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from majordom@localhost by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for discovery-list id CAA13216. Wed, 22 Apr 1998 02:23:42 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@svin08 [131.155.70.71] by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id CAA13212 (ESMTP). Wed, 22 Apr 1998 02:23:37 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from smtp1.gte.net [207.115.153.30] by svin08.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id CAA20863 (ESMTP). Wed, 22 Apr 1998 02:23:36 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from burke (1Cust103.tnt1.sarasota.fl.gt.uu.net [208.255.237.103]) by smtp1.mailsrvcs.net with SMTP id TAA18587 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:23:27 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <353D3972.B97@gte.net> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:27:30 -0400 From: Jennifer & Tim Burke Organization: home X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E-GTE (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: discovery@win.tue.nl Subject: Re: [EXP] Spanish explorers and the Marianas Islands References: <897B6C1DAB@howick.ait.ac.nz> <353D387F.9A5@apple.agora.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: OR > > > I am trying to find information in the form of books recounting > > manuscript/diary form acoounts by the Spanish explorers of the > > marianas, and of the Phillippines > > The books / manuscripts need to be in Spanish and pref written by > > explorers rather than by the Jesuits as I am most interested in what > > the explorers had to say about the native peoples... > > As the manuscripts have to be visited I would preferably find books > > or transcripts of these diaries/manuscripts as they can be > > ordered or airmailed to me > > regards Erik I know that is is not exactly what you're looking for, but perhaps it will be of some help. Antonio Pigafetta accompanied Magellan (who of course didn't quite make it) on his circumnavigation, c.1521, and wrote an account of the voyage. The work contains a number of observations of people Pigafetta encountered as well as a vocabulary words he learned from the people he met. The originals were written in Italian & French. Dover Publications currently has an English Translation in print. Pigafetta, Antonio. Translated and Edited by R.A. Skelton Magellan’s Voyage: A Narrative Account of the First Circumnavigation. (Dover Publications: New York, 1994) ISBN 0-486-28099-3 $8.95 U.S. There is a Spanish translation c.1890, but I don't know how available it might be. Medina, José Toribio. Colección de documentos inéditos para la historia de Chile, vol.II. Santiago de Chile, 1890. Medina also wrote El descubrimento del Océan Pacifico, vol III. Santiago de Chile, 1920. Which may contain some of the information that you're seeking. Adios- Tim -<):-{)} From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Wed Apr 22 03:18:00 1998 Received: from svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135] by svin04.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id DAA14330 (ESMTP). Wed, 22 Apr 1998 03:17:59 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from majordom@localhost by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for discovery-list id DAA13293. Wed, 22 Apr 1998 03:15:24 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@svtt01 [131.155.70.80] by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id DAA13289 (ESMTP). Wed, 22 Apr 1998 03:15:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@rangitoto-3.ait.ac.nz [156.62.3.12] by svtt01.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id DAA26473 (ESMTP). Wed, 22 Apr 1998 03:15:03 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from root@localhost) by rangitoto.ait.ac.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA02010 for discovery@win.tue.nl; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:14:58 +1200 Received: from eden.ait.ac.nz(156.62.1.10) by rangitoto.ait.ac.nz via smap (V2.0) id xma002004; Wed, 22 Apr 98 13:14:39 +1200 Received: from howick.ait.ac.nz (howick.ait.ac.nz [156.62.99.6]) by eden.ait.ac.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10771 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:14:38 +1200 Received: from HOWICK/SpoolDir by howick.ait.ac.nz (Mercury 1.32); 22 Apr 98 13:14:40 +1200 Received: from SpoolDir by HOWICK (Mercury 1.32); 22 Apr 98 13:14:24 +1200 From: "Erik Champion" Organization: AIT To: discovery@win.tue.nl Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:13:30 NZST+1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [EXP] Spanish explorers and the Marianas Islands In-reply-to: <353D387F.9A5@apple.agora.dk> Message-ID: <8D2B713181@howick.ait.ac.nz> Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: OR Sorry my mistake, btw, do you have the explorers web / email address? regards erik pr I will post to the list. Erik Champion M.Arch M.Phil (hons) ph 307 9999 ext 5520 AIT: Art & Design and Commerce From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Wed Apr 22 03:20:40 1998 Received: from svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135] by svin04.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id DAA14335 (ESMTP). Wed, 22 Apr 1998 03:20:40 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from majordom@localhost by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for discovery-list id DAA13301. Wed, 22 Apr 1998 03:19:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@svis01 [131.155.70.161] by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id DAA13297 (ESMTP). Wed, 22 Apr 1998 03:19:05 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@rangitoto-3.ait.ac.nz [156.62.3.12] by svis01.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id DAA28773 (ESMTP). Wed, 22 Apr 1998 03:19:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from root@localhost) by rangitoto.ait.ac.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA02126 for discovery@win.tue.nl; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:18:58 +1200 Received: from eden.ait.ac.nz(156.62.1.10) by rangitoto.ait.ac.nz via smap (V2.0) id xma002116; Wed, 22 Apr 98 13:18:38 +1200 Received: from howick.ait.ac.nz (howick.ait.ac.nz [156.62.99.6]) by eden.ait.ac.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10885 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:18:37 +1200 Received: from HOWICK/SpoolDir by howick.ait.ac.nz (Mercury 1.32); 22 Apr 98 13:18:39 +1200 Received: from SpoolDir by HOWICK (Mercury 1.32); 22 Apr 98 13:18:13 +1200 From: "Erik Champion" Organization: AIT To: discovery@win.tue.nl Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:15:20 NZST+1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable Subject: Re: [EXP] Spanish explorers and the Marianas Islands In-reply-to: <353D3972.B97@gte.net> Message-ID: <8D3BB62C17@howick.ait.ac.nz> Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: OR thank you, it is not quite what I want (ie by the explorer in Spanish originally) but still interesting. EriK > Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:27:30 -0400 > From: Jennifer & Tim Burke > Organization: home > To: discovery@win.tue.nl > Subject: Re: [EXP] Spanish explorers and the Marianas Islands > Reply-to: discovery@win.tue.nl > > > > > I am trying to find information in the form of books recounting > > > manuscript/diary form acoounts by the Spanish explorers of the > > > marianas, and of the Phillippines > > > The books / manuscripts need to be in Spanish and pref written by > > > explorers rather than by the Jesuits as I am most interested in what > > > the explorers had to say about the native peoples... > > > As the manuscripts have to be visited I would preferably find books > > > or transcripts of these diaries/manuscripts as they can be > > > ordered or airmailed to me > > > regards Erik > > I know that is is not exactly what you're looking for, but perhaps it > will be of some help. > > Antonio Pigafetta accompanied Magellan (who of course didn't quite make= > it) on his circumnavigation, c.1521, and wrote an account of the voyage.= > The work contains a number of observations of people Pigafetta > encountered as well as a vocabulary words he learned from the people he > met. The originals were written in Italian & French. Dover > Publications currently has an English Translation in print. > > Pigafetta, Antonio. Translated and Edited by R.A. Skelton Magellan=92s > Voyage: A Narrative Account of the First Circumnavigation. (Dover > Publications: New York, 1994) ISBN 0-486-28099-3 $8.95 U.S. > > There is a Spanish translation c.1890, but I don't know how available it= > might be. > > Medina, Jos=E9 Toribio. Colecci=F3n de documentos in=E9ditos para la hi= storia > de Chile, vol.II. Santiago de Chile, 1890. > > Medina also wrote El descubrimento del Oc=E9an Pacifico, vol III. Santia= go > de Chile, 1920. Which may contain some of the information that you're > seeking. > > Adios- > > Tim > -<):-{)} > Erik Champion M.Arch M.Phil (hons) ph 307 9999 ext 5520 AIT: Art & Design and Commerce From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Wed Apr 22 05:15:05 1998 Received: from svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135] by svin04.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id FAA00119 (ESMTP). Wed, 22 Apr 1998 05:15:05 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from majordom@localhost by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for discovery-list id FAA13392. Wed, 22 Apr 1998 05:13:05 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@svbs01 [131.155.69.3] by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id FAA13388 (ESMTP). Wed, 22 Apr 1998 05:12:59 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@heimdal.agora.dk [194.19.128.20] by svbs01.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id FAA06306 (ESMTP). Wed, 22 Apr 1998 05:12:57 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from 194.19.128.102 (pc02.agora.dk [194.19.128.102]) by heimdal.agora.dk (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id EAA15387 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 04:15:47 +0200 Message-ID: <353D6EFC.7CEF@apple.agora.dk> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 04:15:56 +0000 From: Wild Goose Organization: Aa-Tchoo! Film X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: discovery@win.tue.nl Subject: Re: [EXP] Spanish explorers and the Marianas Islands References: <897B6C1DAB@howick.ait.ac.nz> <353D387F.9A5@apple.agora.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: OR Uh-oh! I made a couple of boo-boos. Sorry! :) I thought Erik had posted me privately, because I moderate another, related list, called 'autobiography'. So I hit Reply and asked him to post to the list - meaning the autobiography list. I am not the moderator of the discovery list. I'm sorry for any confusion caused to Erik or any other member of the discovery list. I started my list a couple of weeks ago. It's on the subject of autobiographies of adventurers - including explorers, revolutionaries, SAS men, etc. I've got a website about my lists, at http://www.angelfire.com/ny/talesandstories And the list itself can be found under the name autobiography, at the ONElist site: http://www.onelist.com I hope it doesn't bother the founder of this list that I post this info. My topic is related but not exactly the same. I will certainly refer people to the discovery list, if and when relevant - like you see I was ready to do in the post to Erik. Hope all is now understood, WG. Wild Goose wrote: > > Hi, Erik! > > You wrote: > > > > Hi! > > I am new to the list but would really appreciate a bit of info. > > Don't be shy. It's a totally new list, anyway! Please post to the list, > itself. Please, please, please! > > I'm afraid I don't know of any books about the Marianas or Philippines > but I would love to know if there are any. I don't even know where the > Marianas are!! I've actually read only a few books in this area - that's > why I started the list, to hear of more! > > I have also heard of an explorers' site and list. Have you heard of > them? If not, I can dig up the info for you. > > The only reason I haven't forwarded a copy of your message to the list > is that I don't know whether this would bother you. You might have your > reasons to hold back. But I ask you now to DO IT!! Or just reply to me > and ask me to forward your message to the list, if you prefer. - if > you're too shy or want to remain anonymous, for example. > > I wish you lots of luck with your research and ask again that you post > to the list - please ... > WG. > > > I am trying to find information in the form of books recounting > > manuscript/diary form acoounts by the Spanish explorers of the > > marianas, and of the Phillippines > > The books / manuscripts need to be in Spanish and pref written by > > explorers rather than by the Jesuits as I am most interested in what > > the explorers had to say about the native peoples... > > As the manuscripts have to be visited I would preferably find books > > or transcripts of these diaries/manuscripts as they can be > > ordered or airmailed to me > > regards Erik