From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Tue Oct 6 21:02:44 1998 Received: from majordom@svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135] by svin04.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id VAA08973 (ESMTP). Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:02:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from majordom@localhost by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for discovery-list id UAA28335. Tue, 6 Oct 1998 20:59:57 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from engels@wsinfm05 [131.155.70.116] by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id UAA28331 (ESMTP). Tue, 6 Oct 1998 20:59:52 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from engels@localhost by wsinfm05.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for discovery id UAA18174. Tue, 6 Oct 1998 20:59:51 +0200 (MET DST) From: engels@win.tue.nl (Andre Engels) Message-Id: <199810061859.UAA18174@wsinfm05.win.tue.nl> Subject: [EXP] John Cabot (fwd) To: discovery@win.tue.nl Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 20:59:51 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: RO I got the following message lately, I am forwarding it to the list hoping that someone can provide more information. ----- Forwarded message from Rudolf Oeser ----- Hallo, I know your adress from some Web-sites. I'm German, sorry, my English is not perfect. Some days ago I was in Italy between Genova and La Spezia. There is some kilometres inside of the sea a village named Castiglione Chiavarese. There are the ruins of the house, where Giovanni Caboto was born. I read it also in a small book, but I found no Internet-Information with this place. All people speak from Genova oder Gaeta, but it seems to be not right. Do you know something about this fact? ----- End of forwarded message from Rudolf Oeser ----- Looking through my own collection of books, I found (among those who spend more than one line of text on Cabot's early life) twice a birthplace of 'unknown, but some contemporaries said Genova', while one gave Corvaggio, near Venice. The first time his name is mentioned is when he is naturalized a Venetian in 1476, and it is stated that by this time he must have lived in Venice for at least 15 years. Does anybody know what information about Cabot's life before this year is around? -- Andre Engels, engels@win.tue.nl, ICQ #6260644 http://www.win.tue.nl/cs/fm/engels/index_en.html A child is not a glass that is filled but a fire that is set ablaze. -- Vincent van Gogh From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Wed Oct 7 00:30:44 1998 Received: from majordom@svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135] by svin04.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id AAA10447 (ESMTP). Wed, 7 Oct 1998 00:30:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from majordom@localhost by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for discovery-list id AAA29984. Wed, 7 Oct 1998 00:29:14 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@svtt01 [131.155.70.80] by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id AAA29979 (ESMTP). Wed, 7 Oct 1998 00:29:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from f188.hotmail.com [207.82.251.77] by svtt01.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id AAA06319 (SMTP). Wed, 7 Oct 1998 00:28:55 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 11696 invoked by uid 0); 6 Oct 1998 22:28:25 -0000 Message-ID: <19981006222825.11695.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 199.238.253.11 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 06 Oct 1998 15:28:25 PDT X-Originating-IP: [199.238.253.11] From: "Gregory McIntosh" To: discovery@win.tue.nl Subject: Re: [EXP] John Cabot (fwd) Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 15:28:25 PDT Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: RO You are correct that there is no documentary information before 1476 about John Cabot. There are, however, documents from between 1495 and 1500 that refer to his birth nationality as being Genoese. This could have meant from the city of Genoa, or its outlying suburbs, or any of the region under its suzerainty, i.e., the Ligurian Republic. I suppose there is even the possibility that what was meant could even include Genoa's foreign possions, e.g., Chios (Xios) in the Aegean Sea, or Caffa on the shores of the Black Sea, but this might be a stretch. Most likely his contemporaries who referred in writing to Cabot as Genoese probably meant he was born in Genoa or its suburbs. Other contemporaries who referred to him in writing, that is, between 1495 and 1500, as Venetian did so because of he was a Venetian citizen. Caboto and its variants, e.g., Gaboto, Chabot, etc., was not an uncommon name in Mediterranean Europe and families of this name are found in Italy, France, Catalonia, etc., during the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries. I doubt that anyone can show any documentary evidence of where in Genoa Cabot was born. Possibly it was a house owned by someone of this surname and civic pride made an association. The best single source for Cabot and the Cabot Questions is still James A. Williamson, , Cambridge: Hakluyt Society, 1962. Greg McIntosh plusultra@hotmail.com >From: engels@win.tue.nl (Andre Engels) >Subject: [EXP] John Cabot (fwd) >To: discovery@win.tue.nl >Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 20:59:51 +0200 (MET DST) >Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl > >I got the following message lately, I am forwarding it to the list >hoping that someone can provide more information. > >----- Forwarded message from Rudolf Oeser ----- > >Hallo, I know your adress from some Web-sites. I'm German, sorry, my English is >not perfect. > >Some days ago I was in Italy between Genova and La Spezia. There is some >kilometres inside of the sea a village named Castiglione Chiavarese. There are >the ruins of the house, where Giovanni Caboto was born. I read it also in a >small book, but I found no Internet-Information with this place. All people >speak from Genova oder Gaeta, but it seems to be not right. Do you know >something about this fact? > >----- End of forwarded message from Rudolf Oeser ----- > >Looking through my own collection of books, I found (among those who >spend more than one line of text on Cabot's early life) twice a >birthplace of 'unknown, but some contemporaries said Genova', while >one gave Corvaggio, near Venice. The first time his name is >mentioned is when he is naturalized a Venetian in 1476, and it is >stated that by this time he must have lived in Venice for at least 15 >years. Does anybody know what information about Cabot's life before >this year is around? > > >-- >Andre Engels, engels@win.tue.nl, ICQ #6260644 >http://www.win.tue.nl/cs/fm/engels/index_en.html > >A child is not a glass that is filled but a fire that is set ablaze. > -- Vincent van Gogh > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Wed Oct 7 09:40:06 1998 Received: from majordom@svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135] by svin04.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id JAA28634 (ESMTP). Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:40:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from majordom@localhost by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for discovery-list id JAA01970. Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:38:46 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@svin08 [131.155.70.71] by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id JAA01966 (ESMTP). Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:38:41 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from [157.138.190.9] by svin08.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id JAA16115 (SMTP). Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:38:36 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from [157.138.190.8] by marciana.venezia.sbn.it (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA05290; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:38:40 +0200 Message-Id: <361B2846.48166F74@marciana.venezia.sbn.it> Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 09:37:26 +0100 From: Piero Falchetta X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [it] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: discovery@win.tue.nl Subject: Re: [EXP] John Cabot (fwd) References: <199810061859.UAA18174@wsinfm05.win.tue.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: RO Andre Engels ha scritto: > I got the following message lately, I am forwarding it to the list > hoping that someone can provide more information. > > ----- Forwarded message from Rudolf Oeser ----- > > Hallo, I know your adress from some Web-sites. I'm German, sorry, my English is > not perfect. > > Some days ago I was in Italy between Genova and La Spezia. There is some > kilometres inside of the sea a village named Castiglione Chiavarese. There are > the ruins of the house, where Giovanni Caboto was born. I read it also in a > small book, but I found no Internet-Information with this place. All people > speak from Genova oder Gaeta, but it seems to be not right. Do you know > something about this fact? > > ----- End of forwarded message from Rudolf Oeser ----- > > Looking through my own collection of books, I found (among those who > spend more than one line of text on Cabot's early life) twice a > birthplace of 'unknown, but some contemporaries said Genova', while > one gave Corvaggio, near Venice. The first time his name is > mentioned is when he is naturalized a Venetian in 1476, and it is > stated that by this time he must have lived in Venice for at least 15 > years. Does anybody know what information about Cabot's life before > this year is around? > > -- > Andre Engels, engels@win.tue.nl, ICQ #6260644 > http://www.win.tue.nl/cs/fm/engels/index_en.html > > A child is not a glass that is filled but a fire that is set ablaze. > -- Vincent van Gogh In October 1997 an International Conference at the University of Toronto, Canada, was dedicated to Giovanni Caboto. The paper presented by Edoardo Giuffrida dealt with the Venetian years of Caboto life. It should be published in the Canadian archives review. -- ************************************************************ Piero Falchetta Biblioteca Nazionale Marciana - Ufficio Carte Geografiche Piazzetta S. Marco 7 30124 Venezia tel (direct) 041.2407224 (operator) 041.5208788 fax 041.5238803 email: falchetta@marciana.venezia.sbn.it From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Thu Oct 8 14:56:21 1998 Received: from majordom@svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135] by svin04.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id OAA27920 (ESMTP). Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:56:21 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from majordom@localhost by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for discovery-list id OAA12450. Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:47:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@svbs01 [131.155.69.3] by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id OAA12446 (ESMTP). Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:47:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from carbon.uunet.be [194.7.1.21] by svbs01.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id OAA26332 (ESMTP). Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:47:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pool051a-102.innet.be (pool051a-102.innet.be [194.7.8.102]) by carbon.uunet.be (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA25628; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:47:02 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <199810081247.OAA25628@carbon.uunet.be> X-Sender: pub00721@pophost.club.innet.be (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 2 (High) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 19:04:34 +0000 To: maphist@harvarda.harvard.edu, discovery@win.tue.nl, pub00721@innet.be From: Deckers Johan Subject: [EXP] Teixeira's expedition - crew Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: RO Rereading the article in Mercator's World Vol I nr 2, about Teixeira's expedition, the author Michael Layland describes ao. the manuscripts recording the expedition: "The Flemish master navigator with the expedition, Matteson, also kept notes and maps of the journey. Because an Englisman, Major Scott, captured Matteson in 1665, some 50 years of his documentary records about the region, passed into British hands." My question is simple: who was Matteson? Who knows where I can find more information about him? Thanks Johan Deckers From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Sun Oct 11 11:24:17 1998 Received: from majordom@svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135] by svin04.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id LAA07201 (ESMTP). Sun, 11 Oct 1998 11:24:17 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from majordom@localhost by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for discovery-list id LAA27404. Sun, 11 Oct 1998 11:22:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@svin08 [131.155.70.71] by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id LAA27400 (ESMTP). Sun, 11 Oct 1998 11:22:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from carbon.uunet.be [194.7.1.21] by svin08.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id LAA29319 (ESMTP). Sun, 11 Oct 1998 11:22:11 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pool051a-125.innet.be (pool051a-125.innet.be [194.7.8.125]) by carbon.uunet.be (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA04552; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 11:22:08 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <199810110922.LAA04552@carbon.uunet.be> X-Sender: pub00721@pophost.club.innet.be (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 15:37:14 +0000 To: discovery@win.tue.nl From: Deckers Johan Subject: [EXP] du petit-thouars Cc: pub00721@innet.be Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: RO Who can give me more information about the French explorer Abel Du Petit-Thouars? It's hard to find. Johan From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Wed Oct 14 05:31:09 1998 Received: from majordom@svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135] by svin04.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id FAA22963 (ESMTP). Wed, 14 Oct 1998 05:31:09 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from majordom@localhost by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for discovery-list id FAA22817. Wed, 14 Oct 1998 05:26:52 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@svin08 [131.155.70.71] by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id FAA22813 (ESMTP). Wed, 14 Oct 1998 05:26:45 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4] by svin08.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id FAA01974 (SMTP). Wed, 14 Oct 1998 05:26:43 +0200 (MET DST) From: baytext@islandnet.com Received: from 139-142-113-28.islandnet.com [139.142.113.28] by mail.islandnet.com with esmtp id m0zTHa5-000KzFC for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:26:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: baytext@mail.islandnet.com (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199810081247.OAA25628@carbon.uunet.be> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 2 (High) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:28:03 -0700 To: Map History Discussion List Subject: [EXP] Re: Teixeira's expedition - crew Cc: discovery@win.tue.nl Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: RO Johan Deckers asked for more information about Mattijs Matteson, one of the pilots for Teixeira's 1637-39 expedition up the Amazon and back. As I told Mr Deckers, privately, I delayed my response, hoping for contributions from others on these lists. I too, am most interested in learning more about this person and what happened to his maps. Dr. Alfredo Marques has given us a wonderfully detailed list of sources in portuguese about the expedition, could he, I wonder, provide a shorter list that make reference to Matteson? The sources I used for my article in Mercator's World included: ADONIAS. Cartografia... (listed by Marques) MARKHAM, C Expeditions into the Valley of the Amazons. Hakluyt Soc 1859 EDMONSON, G. The Voyage of Pedro T. on the Amazon... Trans. R. Historical Soc. London 1920 LORIMER, J. English and Irish Settlements on the Amazon. Hakluyt Soc. 1989 HEMMING, J. Red Gold. Harvard, 1978 JIMENEZ de la ESPADA. Viaje de Capitan Pedro T. Aguas Arriba.... Bol. Soc. Geografica de Madrid. Oct 1880 and continued. (Also published as a book in 1889). Of these, Edmondson provides most about Matteson and his captor, John Scott (who "bought" M's maps etc. some forty years after the T. expedition). He mentions that M's maps "enabled Scott to be the first to announce to the world the existance of the remarkable river Cassiquiare which unites the Rio Negro and the Amazon with the Orinoco". Edmonson reports that Scott's notes are/were "...among the Pepys' papers in the Rawlinson MS in the Bodleian Library." Did M's notes and maps survive? Has anyone studied them? I do hope that Mr. Deckers (or some other scholar) will choose to delve into the life story of Matteson. It would make wonderful reading, and an important subject to cover. Michael Layland >Rereading the article in Mercator's World Vol I nr 2, about Teixeira's >expedition, the author Michael Layland describes ao. the manuscripts >recording the expedition: "The Flemish master navigator with the expedition, >Matteson, also kept notes and maps of the journey. Because an Englisman, >Major Scott, captured Matteson in 1665, some 50 years of his documentary >records about the region, passed into British hands." >My question is simple: who was Matteson? Who knows where I can find more >information about him? > >Thanks > >Johan Deckers From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Sat Oct 17 19:15:07 1998 Received: from majordom@svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135] by svin04.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id TAA21994 (ESMTP). Sat, 17 Oct 1998 19:15:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from majordom@localhost by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for discovery-list id TAA07376. Sat, 17 Oct 1998 19:11:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@svin04 [131.155.70.154] by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id TAA07368 (ESMTP). Sat, 17 Oct 1998 19:10:57 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@mail.minn.net [208.16.88.2] by svin04.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id TAA21977 (ESMTP). Sat, 17 Oct 1998 19:10:53 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from PC_keithp.minn.net (dialup-pm2-30.minn.net [208.16.89.70]) by mail.minn.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA14415 for ; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 12:11:54 -0500 Message-ID: X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: "Discovery list" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Keith Pickering" Subject: [EXP] Cook on Mt. McKinley: The Cook Society's reply to DIO Date: Sat, 17 Oct 98 12:10:45 PDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: RO This past summer, DIO (a journal of science history, of which I am editor), published a very extensive paper by Robert M. Bryce regarding Frederick A. Cook's alleged climb of Mt. McKinley in 1906. The article published a number of Cook's photographs, including the never before seen _uncropped_ version of Cook's famous "summit" photo, long believed by Cook's detractors to actually show a much lower outcrop now known as "Fake Peak." The previously cropped edges of the photo show details that unquestionably prove that the photo is indeed Fake Peak, and not Mt. McKinley as Cook claimed. Apparently the Frederick A. Cook Society (FACS) is not amused. Their journal _Polar Priorities_ has just replied with an article by Sheldon S. R. Cook, in which Bryce was accused of "wholly ignor[ing]" a crucial piece of evidence: a sketch of a mountain that Cook had drawn on page 52 of his diary. This charge of ignoring the sketch is prominent in the article's headline, and is repeated three times in the text. But actually Bryce's paper in DIO spent no less that NINE PAGES analyzing the diary sketch on page 52, including about five pages of text, two photos of the sketch itself, and two photos of Pegasus Peak (which is what the FACS claims is the subject of the sketch). Thus, the FACS flat-out lied in its reply. Bryce makes an excellent case that the sketch actually shows Mt. McKinley. Keith Pickering keithp@minn.net |====================================== | Visit the Columbus Navigation Homepage | http://www1.minn.net/~keithp |====================================== From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Tue Oct 20 09:36:51 1998 Received: from majordom@svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135] by svin04.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id JAA01064 (ESMTP). Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:36:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from majordom@localhost by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for discovery-list id JAA21860. Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:34:33 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@svin08 [131.155.70.71] by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id JAA21856 (ESMTP). Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:34:28 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@[203.66.132.11] by svin08.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id JAA12909 (ESMTP). Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:34:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from metro.hinet.net ([203.66.132.186] (may be forged)) by metro.feg.com.tw (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id PAA25956 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 15:20:03 +0800 Message-ID: <362C3DD5.28B@metro.feg.com.tw> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 15:37:57 +0800 From: julianding X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: discovery@win.tue.nl Subject: [EXP] Discovery of Mauritius Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: RO Dear list members, (1) Here is a question I saw on the ship-stamp mailing list. Subject: Discovery of Mauritius Date: 18 Oct 1998 15:29:25 PDT From: To: Does anyone know the names of any of the ships that Dutch explorer Mauritus Van Nassau used in 1598 when he landed on the island? (2) I do not find any information about the Dutch explorer Mauritus Van Nassau on the Discoverers Web (in the "An alphabetical list of explorers " and other places). I do find a brief introduction about Mauritius on http://ncb.intnet.mu/govt/history.htm (seems to be an official site) in which Mauritius was " named in honor of Prince Maurice Van Nassau, "Stathouder" of Holland " by Admiral Wybrand Van Warwyck.( What does "Stathouder" mean ? ) Some list members may be able to shed some light on this subject. Vico Wang P.O.Box 94 Ying-Ko Taipei Hsien 239 Taiwan e-mail:julian@metro.feg.com.tw From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Tue Oct 20 12:03:05 1998 Received: from majordom@svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135] by svin04.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id MAA02940 (ESMTP). Tue, 20 Oct 1998 12:03:05 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from majordom@localhost by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for discovery-list id MAA01499. Tue, 20 Oct 1998 12:01:37 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from engels@wsinfm15 [131.155.69.168] by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id MAA01495 (ESMTP). Tue, 20 Oct 1998 12:01:32 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from engels@localhost by wsinfm15.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for discovery@win.tue.nl id MAA04457. Tue, 20 Oct 1998 12:01:29 +0200 (MET DST) From: engels@win.tue.nl (Andre Engels) Message-Id: <199810201001.MAA04457@wsinfm15.win.tue.nl> Subject: Re: [EXP] Discovery of Mauritius In-Reply-To: <362C3DD5.28B@metro.feg.com.tw> from julianding at "Oct 20, 1998 3:37:57 pm" To: discovery@win.tue.nl Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 12:01:28 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: RO julianding wrote: > (2) I do not find any information about the Dutch explorer Mauritus > Van Nassau on the Discoverers Web (in the "An alphabetical list of > explorers " and other places). > > I do find a brief introduction about Mauritius on > http://ncb.intnet.mu/govt/history.htm (seems to be an official site) > in which Mauritius was " named in honor of Prince Maurice Van > Nassau, "Stathouder" of Holland " by Admiral Wybrand Van Warwyck.( > What does "Stathouder" mean ? ) I don't know an explorer by anything like that name either, the explanation that it was in name of Prince Maurits seems much likelier. "Stadhouder" (in English 'stadtholder') was originally the name of the governor who governed the Netherlands in the name of the king of Spain. After they had fought their independence, and become a republic, it was one of the highest functions within the republic. Although it was generally filled by the members of the house Oranje-Nassau (from which also the present Dutch royalty stems), it was, not officially hereditary, and there have been three periods in the seventeenth century (of several years eac) when there was none at all. Wijbrandt van Warwijck was the captain on the first voyage of the Dutch United East-Indian Company (VOC), 1602-1605. He visited Sumatra, Java, Borneo, the Moluccas and Macao, and established the first VOC-settlement in East India, in Bantam. From a rough map of his route it seems that he did visit Mauritius, but I have not found any written information about that. -- Andre Engels, engels@win.tue.nl, ICQ #6260644 http://www.win.tue.nl/cs/fm/engels/index_en.html A child is not a glass that is filled but a fire that is set ablaze. -- Vincent van Gogh -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3i mQCNAzXP+9MAAAEEAKYAL+biKfWriRW1nnxzDo5JV2UFdHWi/rADnPjiJJFe4ZHq ks7dpDjpdS4jYjZP6L7I8gf1AV+/pNQANeVyDOQlUWru+7MYs7FOSiu1sdKoy60n C3oipTQdyHT620itx4lskUiWALWsHOXOiEayMxZtIFFdPjxJtqTsFIdW9jllAAUR tBFlbmdlbHNAd2luLnR1ZS5ubIkAlQMFEDXP+9Sk7BSHVvY5ZQEBtJYD/10nT/Uu ABXsVB7hnE+ExGAqAMuPyrwCHtRlRGwT94mr6ODjrIjzZHR/avg6TTRlhyHlGEXs GQs6yi0euGim6oxGkrLL8IiewxQTiP28v1/fFRYgRRYzHfxA0FbrO86aBecdz3tK etVgFbP/yt9xr3K0cEnkHYjFuI1KWKee7Fzd =mVxx -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Tue Oct 20 19:08:21 1998 Received: from majordom@svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135] by svin04.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id TAA08011 (ESMTP). Tue, 20 Oct 1998 19:08:21 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from majordom@localhost by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for discovery-list id TAA04618. Tue, 20 Oct 1998 19:07:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@svin07 [131.155.70.232] by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id TAA04614 (ESMTP). Tue, 20 Oct 1998 19:07:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from root@delftnet.nl [194.229.15.1] by svin07.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id TAA03091 (ESMTP). Tue, 20 Oct 1998 19:07:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from peter (modem7.delftnet.nl [194.229.15.248]) by delftnet.nl (8.8.2/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA29085 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 19:07:04 +0200 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19981020184918.006b8be4@delftnet.nl> X-Sender: pvdk@delftnet.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:49:18 +0100 To: discovery@win.tue.nl From: Peter van der Krogt Subject: Re: [EXP] Discovery of Mauritius In-Reply-To: <199810201001.MAA04457@wsinfm15.win.tue.nl> References: <362C3DD5.28B@metro.feg.com.tw> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: RO Prince Maurits, the stadhouder, and Mauritius van Nassau are identical. There is no explorer names Maurits van Nassau. I guess the author of the original message confused the explorer who named the islands and the prince-stadhouder to whom the islands are named. The following is a paragraph from G. Schilder, Monumenta Cartographica Neerlandica III: Two wall-maps of the world by Blaeu: 1619 and 1645/46 ( Alphen aan den Rijn: Canaletto, 1990). The most important fleet was a squadron made up of eight ships under the command of Admiral Jacob Cornelisz van Neck and Vice-Admiral Wijbrant van Warwijck.451 Part of our information on the means of navigation that were supplied to Van Neck's fleet comes from the 'Bill of navigation aids'. A detailed discussion of this material can be found in the works edited by the Linschoten- Vereeniging. [De Tweede Schipvaart der Nederlander naar Oost-Indi=EB onder Jacob Cornelisz. van Neck en Wijbrant Warwijck. / J. Keuning. - 's-Gravenhage: Martinus Nijhoff, 1938-1949. - 5 vols.-( Werken uitgegeven door de Linschoten Vereeniging; XLII, XLIV, XLVI, XLVIII & L]. According to the instructions all the 'logs, maps, manuscripts, drawings of counties, towns, streams, roadsteads, ports, capes or corners, signs of the zodiac, routes and everything connected with this navigation, made, annotated, written or obtained during the voyage', had to be handed in to the shipowners after the return. A good survey of the second voyage is provided by the chart published by Cornelis Claesz on which the travel route has been drawn (ill. 3.127).453 On 1 May 1598, Van Neck's fleet left the roadstead of Texel. Without incident they sailed to the Cape of Good Hope. At the beginning of August the ships ran into a heavy storm which caused the vice-admiral to continue the voyage to Bantam on his own. Van Warwijck further explored the uninhabited island of Do Cirne, which had been discovered by the Portuguese, and which the Dutch called Mauritius. ----- In vol. IV of the same series, Schilder writes: This island, which bears the name of 'Do Cirne' on Portuguese maps, was spotted by vice-admiral Wybrant Warwijck during the crossing from Madagascar to Java on 17 September 1598. The Dutch renamed the unpopulated island Mauritius, in honour of Prince Maurits. ---- ______________________________________________________ Visit the MapHist WWW page http://kartoserver.geog.uu.nl/HTML/STAFF/krogt/maphist.htm YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115 3508 TC UTRECHT, The Netherlands Home page: http://kartoserver.geog.uu.nl/HTML/STAFF/krogt/krogt.htm Genealogy page: http://www.delftnet.nl/~pvdk/ e-mail: p.vanderkrogt@geog.uu.nl and pvdk@delftnet.nl Fax +31 15 212 6063 YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY From owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Tue Oct 27 10:42:34 1998 Received: from majordom@svin12.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.135] by svin04.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id KAA04212 (ESMTP). Tue, 27 Oct 1998 10:42:33 +0100 (MET) Received: from majordom@localhost by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for discovery-list id KAA22907. Tue, 27 Oct 1998 10:35:17 +0100 (MET) Received: from engels@wsinfm15 [131.155.69.168] by svin12.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for id KAA22903 (ESMTP). Tue, 27 Oct 1998 10:35:12 +0100 (MET) Received: from engels@localhost by wsinfm15.win.tue.nl (8.8.7) for discovery id KAA06209. Tue, 27 Oct 1998 10:35:11 +0100 (MET) From: engels@win.tue.nl (Andre Engels) Message-Id: <199810270935.KAA06209@wsinfm15.win.tue.nl> Subject: [EXP] Carthagininas (fwd) To: discovery@win.tue.nl Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 10:35:10 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-discovery@win.tue.nl Precedence: bulk Reply-To: discovery@win.tue.nl Status: O The following message was found by majordomo to come from a non-subscriber to the discovery mailing list. Such messages are refused, this is done to stop spam. The problem was that Mark sent it from another address than the one he is subcribed on. Could everyone who wants to send something to the list please beware of this? Thank you. ----- Forwarded message ----- Some current subscribers to Discovery may recall an interesting discussion that began in 1996 regarding what I claimed to be a Carthaginian map of 350 BC. There is a new development in this field; for more information visit the following webpage: http://www.mtholyoke.edu/courses/mmcmenam/january.html Yours truly, Mark McMenamin ----- End of forwarded message ----- -- Andre Engels, engels@win.tue.nl, ICQ #6260644 http://www.win.tue.nl/cs/fm/engels/index_en.html A child is not a glass that is filled but a fire that is set ablaze. -- Vincent van Gogh